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Thursday, July 29, 2004

Easy listening continues to haunt us

   In all the debates that have blown up lately over abortion rights, one thing has really surprised me--how many men are neither pro-choice nor pro-life but more strictly anti-women's rights.  I was under the impression that the pro-life movement had wooed most of the men who had a problem with women's rights over to their side, since they offer the ready-made excuse:  No, we're not against women's rights, this is about saving babies!  (Anti-feminists that are fighting wage equality have the same type of excuse--claim you're all for equal pay for equal work and then fight to keep women out of higher-paying jobs.)
   But the inherent problem with the pro-life stance is that if abortion is made illegal, men cannot take advantage of it as easily.  After all, if a woman wants an abortion and her boyfriend wants one too, then he's getting punished for having sex too!  I've always wondered how men who were "pro-life" dealt with that problem.  Some really are pro-life and they figure they'll just suck it up and take care of babies they didn't want.  And of course, there are the hypocrites that are well-represented in leadership positions in the right who decry abortion in public knowing that even if it's illegal they will be able to pay for it if need be. 
   For everyone else, there is a hole.  And I've learned what's filling it up these past few days--a hazy concept of men's rights.  The idea is that if a man impregnates a woman, he has a right to tell her what to do with it.  You can see examples here and here.  The logic is that since any child born is half the father's responsibility, he has 50% ownership rights to the pregnancy, which only seems to mean that men have total veto power over a woman's right to an abortion.  It's not really more complex than that; the legalistic crap is all to obscure the question of what to do when a woman wants one thing and her man wants another.

   Thinking about all this, I've decided to blame Paul Anka.  Not only is "Having My Baby" probably the worst song ever written, it reinforced the most unscientific belief that men make babies and women just carry them.  We can only be grateful that he didn't decide to make the song part of a series explicating the number of situations where, out of sheer feminine love of men, women do the work that men will be laying claim to.  Think of the horror if he had--"Making My Dinner", "Cleaning My House", "Raising My Children".  Well, for one thing, karaoke sure as hell would not be nearly as fun.

140 Comments:

Blogger Earnest said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

7/29/2004

 
Blogger Earnest said...

I think you fail to fully ascertain the male viewpoint, which is this: I helped create the baby; in the eyes of the law, it will be half my responsibility; since it will be partly my responsibility, shouldn't I have some role in the decision making processes regarding the baby?

Is abortion about deciding when the best time to become a parent is? If so, shouldn't men be privy to the same question of whether it's time to become a parent? If the issue is just over whether a woman has a right to control her body, then the answer is simple: of course she does. Even then, you can't ignore that the woman's decision automatically impacts the man, undermining his self-determination, much the same way that the male used to undermine female self-determination by outlawing abortion.

I consider myself a feminist but not in the radical sense. I prefer individualist feminism to radical feminism because I find IFeminism to be about justice and the other sexism. Through that lens, the abortion issue become murky. I would prefer to see the actual need for abortions decrease through people becoming more thoughtful about sex, aware of their potential, and realistic about their goals-- men and women. Where abortions are prudent, I think that a woman, for obvious reasons, should have the final say in whether she carries her pregnancy to term or not. After all, it is her body. In an uncommitted relationship, I think that both potential parents should have some say in the extent to which they intend to be a parent. The woman can choose not to become a parent, to have the baby and put it up for adoption, or to have the baby and assume full parental responsibilities. The father should be able to decide the extent of his parenthood. He should be able to decide not to be a parent, to be a non-custodial parent, or to assume full parental responsibilities.

I don't know how most men feel about this issue, but I am just trying to figure out what the fairest possible solution to the issue.

7/29/2004

 
Blogger Amanda said...

But how do you feel about Paul Anka?

7/29/2004

 
Blogger Amanda said...

Really, in all seriousness, how can women have bodily rights if men are given "equal" rights to decide that his wife/girlfriend/one night stand cannot have an abortion, even if she wants one?

7/29/2004

 
Blogger Earnest said...

Paul Anka should've aborted the song. Unfortunately, he decided to keep it, and we're still living with the consequences *sigh*

I don't think men should be able to decide whether women have abortions-- they should just have a right to decide whether they will have any parental responsibility or not. I think the stakes are different in a committed relationship, especially a marriage. The obligations are different. Hopefully in a marriage both members have the sense and compassion to take their partner thoughts and feelings into real consideration before making a choice that will affect both members. Isn't that what marriage is all about?

What concerns me more is the uncommitted relationship-- the one night stand or the summer fling or whatever. Shouldn't both participants in a relationship like that have equal opportunity for self-determination?

7/29/2004

 
Blogger The News Writer said...

Oh, I don't know. If Paul Anka had made all those other songs (you forgot "Being Available For Me Anytime I Want" and "Getting My Bear from the Fridge"), Parody Karaoke might be really REALLY fun.

I heard "Having My Baby" on the radio the other day, after years of completely forgetting it (thankfully) and it reminded me all over again how much I agree that it is the worse song ever written, and for just the reasons you cited.

7/29/2004

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've chatted with a number of men on this. The idea is as follows: after conception, women have all the options. If they want to abort, they can; if they want to keep the child, they can, and the man is responsible for support but has no initial chance at custody (I don't know what happens abotu visitation). If they want to leave the child in a hospital in some plaecs they can. I am not sure what the laws on having the child adopted are.

What a lot of them want is an option to terminate parental rights. It would go something as follows. The woman tells the man she is pregnant. He has (some amount of time) to decide if he wants any parental rights or responsibilities. If he decides to terminate his rights, then he gets no visitation, ever, nor does he have to pay support. If he decides not to, then it's like what it is now, more or less. Independently, the woman can decide to abort or not. Depending on the length of time that the proposal allows the man, she can decide based on his decision (the majority allow men more time than this, but not all).

The people I know who support this range from liberal to conservative, with a big lump at libertarian.

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7/29/2004

 
Blogger Amanda said...

See, that seems faintly ridiculous. Once there is an actual, living, breathing child to consider, things usually change immediately. Anyway, most of the "men's rights" activists are more interested in changing child support laws while still getting visitation.

7/29/2004

 
Blogger Earnest said...

I don't really know about the "Mens' rights" movement, but wolfangel nails it on the head. Yeah, a living breathing child does change things, but the point is that the woman has the choice to have a living, breathing "dependent" and the male does not.

7/29/2004

 
Blogger marble said...

Back in the day when men *could* just abandon women & their children completely when they got pregnant, a lot of women and children suffered unfairly. Men didn't feel like contributing to the child's welfar, so they didn't, and no one forced them to.

Our current system isn't perfect, but it is better.

The situation isn't pretty, but it is the best compromise out of a host of rather icky options. As it is now, the man loses control of his biological material the moment it leaves the end of his penis. The woman has the luxury of time to think over whether to carry the child and also whether to raise it.

I hear many men complain about the idea of being forced to support a child they don't want. I think these guys should use condoms. Two at a time. Better yet, get a vasectomy - if you want children later, they can always reverse it or just pull some sperm out with a needle.

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Blogger Earnest said...

Are you suggesting that you know what's best for us to do with our bodies? :)

7/29/2004

 
Blogger Amanda said...

If a woman doesn't want children, I don't think I'm oppressing her to tell her to take the pill, so no. :P

7/29/2004

 
Blogger Ron said...

I'm more of a fan of Bobby Vinton aka "The Polish Prince". Without "Blue Velvet", the world would be a less colorful place.

Earnest, I'd respectfully suggest that you, and other men than feel as you do, not have sex with women outside of a committed relationship. It's your dick and you know that women get pregnant when men use their un-condomed dick. Sometimes the condom breaks. Tough shit. You fucked her. Now it's your responsibility to live with whatever she decides. Fair, maybe not, but life is not fair to women either.

7/30/2004

 
Blogger Earnest said...

I don't view equality as something to just give up on.

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