Mouse rant blog vent mouse.

Thursday, July 29, 2004

Easy listening continues to haunt us

   In all the debates that have blown up lately over abortion rights, one thing has really surprised me--how many men are neither pro-choice nor pro-life but more strictly anti-women's rights.  I was under the impression that the pro-life movement had wooed most of the men who had a problem with women's rights over to their side, since they offer the ready-made excuse:  No, we're not against women's rights, this is about saving babies!  (Anti-feminists that are fighting wage equality have the same type of excuse--claim you're all for equal pay for equal work and then fight to keep women out of higher-paying jobs.)
   But the inherent problem with the pro-life stance is that if abortion is made illegal, men cannot take advantage of it as easily.  After all, if a woman wants an abortion and her boyfriend wants one too, then he's getting punished for having sex too!  I've always wondered how men who were "pro-life" dealt with that problem.  Some really are pro-life and they figure they'll just suck it up and take care of babies they didn't want.  And of course, there are the hypocrites that are well-represented in leadership positions in the right who decry abortion in public knowing that even if it's illegal they will be able to pay for it if need be. 
   For everyone else, there is a hole.  And I've learned what's filling it up these past few days--a hazy concept of men's rights.  The idea is that if a man impregnates a woman, he has a right to tell her what to do with it.  You can see examples here and here.  The logic is that since any child born is half the father's responsibility, he has 50% ownership rights to the pregnancy, which only seems to mean that men have total veto power over a woman's right to an abortion.  It's not really more complex than that; the legalistic crap is all to obscure the question of what to do when a woman wants one thing and her man wants another.

   Thinking about all this, I've decided to blame Paul Anka.  Not only is "Having My Baby" probably the worst song ever written, it reinforced the most unscientific belief that men make babies and women just carry them.  We can only be grateful that he didn't decide to make the song part of a series explicating the number of situations where, out of sheer feminine love of men, women do the work that men will be laying claim to.  Think of the horror if he had--"Making My Dinner", "Cleaning My House", "Raising My Children".  Well, for one thing, karaoke sure as hell would not be nearly as fun.

28 Comments:

Blogger Earnest said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

7/29/2004

 
Blogger Earnest said...

I think you fail to fully ascertain the male viewpoint, which is this: I helped create the baby; in the eyes of the law, it will be half my responsibility; since it will be partly my responsibility, shouldn't I have some role in the decision making processes regarding the baby?

Is abortion about deciding when the best time to become a parent is? If so, shouldn't men be privy to the same question of whether it's time to become a parent? If the issue is just over whether a woman has a right to control her body, then the answer is simple: of course she does. Even then, you can't ignore that the woman's decision automatically impacts the man, undermining his self-determination, much the same way that the male used to undermine female self-determination by outlawing abortion.

I consider myself a feminist but not in the radical sense. I prefer individualist feminism to radical feminism because I find IFeminism to be about justice and the other sexism. Through that lens, the abortion issue become murky. I would prefer to see the actual need for abortions decrease through people becoming more thoughtful about sex, aware of their potential, and realistic about their goals-- men and women. Where abortions are prudent, I think that a woman, for obvious reasons, should have the final say in whether she carries her pregnancy to term or not. After all, it is her body. In an uncommitted relationship, I think that both potential parents should have some say in the extent to which they intend to be a parent. The woman can choose not to become a parent, to have the baby and put it up for adoption, or to have the baby and assume full parental responsibilities. The father should be able to decide the extent of his parenthood. He should be able to decide not to be a parent, to be a non-custodial parent, or to assume full parental responsibilities.

I don't know how most men feel about this issue, but I am just trying to figure out what the fairest possible solution to the issue.

7/29/2004

 
Blogger Amanda Marcotte said...

But how do you feel about Paul Anka?

7/29/2004

 
Blogger Amanda Marcotte said...

Really, in all seriousness, how can women have bodily rights if men are given "equal" rights to decide that his wife/girlfriend/one night stand cannot have an abortion, even if she wants one?

7/29/2004

 
Blogger Earnest said...

Paul Anka should've aborted the song. Unfortunately, he decided to keep it, and we're still living with the consequences *sigh*

I don't think men should be able to decide whether women have abortions-- they should just have a right to decide whether they will have any parental responsibility or not. I think the stakes are different in a committed relationship, especially a marriage. The obligations are different. Hopefully in a marriage both members have the sense and compassion to take their partner thoughts and feelings into real consideration before making a choice that will affect both members. Isn't that what marriage is all about?

What concerns me more is the uncommitted relationship-- the one night stand or the summer fling or whatever. Shouldn't both participants in a relationship like that have equal opportunity for self-determination?

7/29/2004

 
Blogger Nunzia Rider said...

Oh, I don't know. If Paul Anka had made all those other songs (you forgot "Being Available For Me Anytime I Want" and "Getting My Bear from the Fridge"), Parody Karaoke might be really REALLY fun.

I heard "Having My Baby" on the radio the other day, after years of completely forgetting it (thankfully) and it reminded me all over again how much I agree that it is the worse song ever written, and for just the reasons you cited.

7/29/2004

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've chatted with a number of men on this. The idea is as follows: after conception, women have all the options. If they want to abort, they can; if they want to keep the child, they can, and the man is responsible for support but has no initial chance at custody (I don't know what happens abotu visitation). If they want to leave the child in a hospital in some plaecs they can. I am not sure what the laws on having the child adopted are.

What a lot of them want is an option to terminate parental rights. It would go something as follows. The woman tells the man she is pregnant. He has (some amount of time) to decide if he wants any parental rights or responsibilities. If he decides to terminate his rights, then he gets no visitation, ever, nor does he have to pay support. If he decides not to, then it's like what it is now, more or less. Independently, the woman can decide to abort or not. Depending on the length of time that the proposal allows the man, she can decide based on his decision (the majority allow men more time than this, but not all).

The people I know who support this range from liberal to conservative, with a big lump at libertarian.

wolfangel
http://wolfangel.calltherain.net

7/29/2004

 
Blogger Amanda Marcotte said...

See, that seems faintly ridiculous. Once there is an actual, living, breathing child to consider, things usually change immediately. Anyway, most of the "men's rights" activists are more interested in changing child support laws while still getting visitation.

7/29/2004

 
Blogger Earnest said...

I don't really know about the "Mens' rights" movement, but wolfangel nails it on the head. Yeah, a living breathing child does change things, but the point is that the woman has the choice to have a living, breathing "dependent" and the male does not.

7/29/2004

 
Blogger Marelle said...

Back in the day when men *could* just abandon women & their children completely when they got pregnant, a lot of women and children suffered unfairly. Men didn't feel like contributing to the child's welfar, so they didn't, and no one forced them to.

Our current system isn't perfect, but it is better.

The situation isn't pretty, but it is the best compromise out of a host of rather icky options. As it is now, the man loses control of his biological material the moment it leaves the end of his penis. The woman has the luxury of time to think over whether to carry the child and also whether to raise it.

I hear many men complain about the idea of being forced to support a child they don't want. I think these guys should use condoms. Two at a time. Better yet, get a vasectomy - if you want children later, they can always reverse it or just pull some sperm out with a needle.

7/29/2004

 
Blogger Earnest said...

Are you suggesting that you know what's best for us to do with our bodies? :)

7/29/2004

 
Blogger Amanda Marcotte said...

If a woman doesn't want children, I don't think I'm oppressing her to tell her to take the pill, so no. :P

7/29/2004

 
Blogger Ron said...

I'm more of a fan of Bobby Vinton aka "The Polish Prince". Without "Blue Velvet", the world would be a less colorful place.

Earnest, I'd respectfully suggest that you, and other men than feel as you do, not have sex with women outside of a committed relationship. It's your dick and you know that women get pregnant when men use their un-condomed dick. Sometimes the condom breaks. Tough shit. You fucked her. Now it's your responsibility to live with whatever she decides. Fair, maybe not, but life is not fair to women either.

7/30/2004

 
Blogger Earnest said...

I don't view equality as something to just give up on.

7/31/2004

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I say we end poverty first -- Social Credit could help here -- and then worry about men's unwanted responsibilities. -Omar

7/31/2004

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Among these magnificent benefits is the chance to be able to promote your business, any business,

11/03/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

affiliate business opportunity program is great

i found here searching for the word affiliate business opportunity program and your site was listed high on the word affiliate business opportunity program
GOOD JOB

affiliate business opportunity program

11/06/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You aren't going to believe this website! If you really like teen ass then this is even bigger than you can imagine!

Twins Twins Twins! Free sample pic here at my blog:
Milton Twins !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And feel free to post at my blog too.

11/08/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Join the 3 Marketeers Club today, its Absolutely FREE!!

11/10/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi ##NAME##, while looking for info on , I saw your blog ##TITLE## and congrats. It's exciting stuff, like the new Sports Arbitrage Software with its five way to make guaranteed winnings. Sports arbitrage, as some may not know, is simply betting on both sides of a sports event - and with this software you should double a same amount bet every 20 days. So, In 12 months a $100 bet wins $1825, and $1,000 wins $18,250. That's a 152% return a month! You don't have to buy our software program for arbitrage unless you think you want the most successful system, and like it's done in only 15 minutes a day. And, unlike a HYIP offer - YOU CAN'T LOSE! Better check this money making ##LINK## for 2006 and be ready start the new year happy and profitable. Get a special deal for affiliates. And good blogging in 2006!

12/21/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi there, you have a really useful blog. Can you believe it? When blog surfing for detailed info on dating in india I ended up on your page. Obviously your site is not exactly what I was searching for, but your site caught my interest. Just wanted to drop a quick note to comment your blog...now to move on and continue my search for dating in india. Thanks for the post.

12/29/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice blog! Good topic and very well organized!

html popup

1/15/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi,
I found reading your blog interesting and well done, I do like what you have done with your site but it is not really the information I was after about Health Fitness . Keep up the good work and hopefully I will visit again sometime and also find the information on Health Fitness that I was looking for in my travels.
Regards,

1/23/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have always wanted to set up my own website. I have found the tasks a little intimidating. Now I am thinking about starting a blog. It seems a little easier to start publishing fairly quickly.

Much appreciated,
work at home business opportunity internet online

1/24/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you don't plan to carry a balance from month to month, then your options expand greatly. A Chase Subaru Platinum MasterCard Card plan with different reward programs may become your best option.

10/12/2006

 
Blogger oakleyses said...

michael kors outlet, oakley vault, ray ban outlet, kate spade handbags, ray ban sunglasses, christian louboutin shoes, michael kors outlet online, michael kors outlet online, prada handbags, longchamp handbags, tiffany jewelry, louis vuitton outlet online, coach outlet, christian louboutin, polo ralph lauren outlet, nike air max, burberry outlet online, jordan shoes, louis vuitton outlet, louis vuitton handbags, tiffany and co jewelry, red bottom shoes, gucci handbags, michael kors outlet online, true religion outlet, michael kors outlet online, nike shoes, kate spade outlet online, longchamp outlet online, prada outlet, coach outlet, louis vuitton outlet, coach purses, longchamp outlet, true religion, louis vuitton, cheap oakley sunglasses, tory burch outlet, chanel handbags, coach outlet store online, polo ralph lauren, burberry outlet online, nike free, christian louboutin outlet, oakley sunglasses, nike air max, michael kors outlet store

11/16/2014

 
Blogger oakleyses said...

uggs outlet, uggs on sale, beats headphones, lululemon outlet, vans outlet, nfl jerseys, soccer jerseys, nike trainers, wedding dresses, jimmy choo shoes, ferragamo shoes, mac cosmetics, chi flat iron, rolex watches, longchamp, new balance outlet, abercrombie and fitch, p90x workout, bottega veneta, reebok shoes, canada goose outlet, ghd, roshe run, mcm handbags, soccer shoes, instyler ionic styler, valentino shoes, canada goose outlet, ugg outlet, north face outlet, celine handbags, north face jackets, ugg soldes, herve leger, giuseppe zanotti, mont blanc pens, nike huarache, ugg, asics shoes, insanity workout, canada goose outlet, hollister, canada goose, marc jacobs outlet, ugg boots, birkin bag, babyliss pro

11/16/2014

 
Blogger oakleyses said...

swarovski jewelry, converse shoes, ugg, canada goose pas cher, hollister, oakley, canada goose, juicy couture outlet, pandora uk, hollister canada, converse, moncler, louboutin, replica watches, timberland shoes, pandora charms, pandora jewelry, iphone 6 case, ray ban, swarovski uk, uggs canada, moncler, gucci, moncler, vans, montre femme, juicy couture outlet, moncler, ralph lauren, coach outlet, moncler, moncler, moncler outlet, links of london uk, thomas sabo uk, louis vuitton canada, supra shoes, baseball bats, wedding dress, hollister clothing, karen millen, canada goose uk, toms outlet, parajumpers outlet, air max, lancel, canada goose, nike air max

11/16/2014

 

Post a Comment

Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]

<< Home