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Sunday, October 24, 2004

Geeks vs. nerds

Steve Gilliard weighs in on the geeks vs. nerds debate and in my opinion, puts the whole thing to rest.

Well, the difference between geeks and nerds are worldiness. Geeks like odd, hip things, like Steve Earle, manga and Lupin the Third on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim. They cackle at Sealab 2120 and love Aqua Teen Hunger Force. They wear soccer jerseys and build computers and appreciate sushi. I would be, by most definitions, a geek.

Nerds think chess is a great way to spend the day. They have collections of Isaac Asimov and Piers Anthony and think D&D is better when you dress up.

Geeks want partners, nerds want to be worshiped.

Dammit, I wish I had thought of this.

He goes on to describe and appreciate geek girls. I always considered myself nerdy, because I like to read so much, but under this delination I guess I'm more of a geek. He figures that many geek girls like the girly stuff, which is pretty accurate in my case. (The window that this computer sits next to has pink curtains. 'nuff said.)

Wanting to be worshipped, of course, is a result of insecurity. It seems that the major difference between geeks and nerds that Steve sees is that geeks are self-assured and nerds are not. He admires geek girls for their self-assurance, and I would say that I see that same admirable self-assurance in a lot of geeky guys. Yesterday my all too reasonable boyfriend wondered while watching a pick up commercial why anyone would want a big, bulky pick up truck instead of a small, swift motorcycle. He pointed out that small motorcycles and even small cars are a lot more fun to drive because they handle easier, so you can go faster. (Well, that's the condensed version of what he said. Car geeks will carry on about their obsession at length.)

I just laughed and said, "Well, if your vehicle is a penis substitute, then of course bigger is better." He rolled his eyes at me and went on about how the bigger is better thing is making traffic a nightmare. Stupid story, but I think compliments Steve's point very well--geeks like what they like because they just do, not because it fulfills some power fantasy. To a self-assured geek a car, and for that matter a penis, is just a tool that's only as good as the use you get out of it. That I think explains the sex appeal that geeky boys and girls have, at least to each other.

47 Comments:

Blogger mythago said...

This sounds uncomfortably close to a "ha ha, we geeks are cool and you nerds are not" kinda post.

I don't see the divide--where there is one, because there's a lot of overlap--as about insecurity. Plenty of geeks like 'odd, hip' things precisely so that they can be odd and hip and above the cattle who don't Get It, or simply don't have the kewl to appreciate those odd, hip things.

10/24/2004

 
Blogger Amanda Marcotte said...

I'd say that it's a straight up sneering down our collective noses at nerds.

My interest here is in the fantasies and gender roles in the two groups that he's describing. Nerd hobbies do often center around power and spring from insecure masculine identities. Geeks do have more gender parity in their ranks--the culture of gaming is a perfect example of something that became less nerd, more geek chic and its doors opened up to women way more. I don't play games like I used to, but when I do play with men I don't feel like it's assumed that I'm gonna suck just because I'm a girl like it used to be.

If I want to judge nerdier subcultures because of serious gender disparity and stratified role-playing, I think I'm justified. You see the same differences in the punk and metal subcultures play out--punk is way more gender-intergrated and there's much less pressure on women to role play as sex objects and nothing more.

None of this means that geeky subcultures have gender parity at all, but just that they have more.

10/24/2004

 
Blogger Amanda Marcotte said...

I'd say that it's a straight up sneering down our collective noses at nerds.

My interest here is in the fantasies and gender roles in the two groups that he's describing. Nerd hobbies do often center around power and spring from insecure masculine identities. Geeks do have more gender parity in their ranks--the culture of gaming is a perfect example of something that became less nerd, more geek chic and its doors opened up to women way more. I don't play games like I used to, but when I do play with men I don't feel like it's assumed that I'm gonna suck just because I'm a girl like it used to be.

If I want to judge nerdier subcultures because of serious gender disparity and stratified role-playing, I think I'm justified. You see the same differences in the punk and metal subcultures play out--punk is way more gender-intergrated and there's much less pressure on women to role play as sex objects and nothing more.

None of this means that geeky subcultures have achieved gender parity at all, but just that they have more.

10/24/2004

 
Blogger Amanda Marcotte said...

Dammit! Double-posted on my own blog. Anyway, I wanted to add that yeah, there's a lot of overlap. But not as much as there used to be and I think the flood of women into the geek subcultures has a lot to do with why the two are separating.

10/24/2004

 
Blogger mythago said...

The only difference I'm seeing in the split there is math. More math = more guys = more 'nerd,' less geek. Gaming is a really great example of this, where you have lots of gender parity in LARPs and not so much in train games or miniatures. Ditto chess and Isaac Asimov. There's some of that in computer-geek culture, too; yeah, you hear a lot of talk about 'chicks frag too' but when it comes down to the actual hardware part, magazines like MAXIMUM PC have 98% male subscriber rates.

(I'd argue Piers Anthony is *not* something nerds read, btw. It's fantasy, not hard SF, for one. The reason he's less popular among the trad-geek crowd is that his books are appallingly sexist, which didn't matter so much back in the days when we didn't have much else, or to 13-year-old boys, but is just embarassing otherwise.)

10/24/2004

 
Blogger Blogger said...

Eh. I think this is a terminology issue. I was struck by the fact that Steve doesn't talk about nerdy girls at all--I can see how in his nomenclature there probably aren't many nerd girls. But I've always called myself a nerd--in high school, my group of (girl, mostly) friends were the Nerds (very happy with the title, thank you), I went to a nerd university for college, I date a nerd, my friends are all proud nerds. We've always called ourselves such, and thought of geeks as boys who can't talk about anything beyond why Microsoft is actually the Anti-Christ.

The way my friends use the term, nerds are just smart people who aren't embarrassed to be interested in random and sometimes bizarre things. Politics, science, computers, literature, dumb movies...whatever you're interested in is cool, as long as you're also a cool person.

I don't want to argue that Steve geek/nerd definitions are wrong; I think I'd use much the same definitions, but switch the words they're assigned to. I think he's describing real groups of people, but at least in my world, the terms mean the opposite things.

10/24/2004

 
Blogger Campaign Staff said...

Whoah! I have to respectfully disagree. nerds and geeks aren't at odds, we're just getting the classification wrong: Geeks are a species in the genus Homo Nerdus. Some geeks are more specialized than others, but make no mistake, a role playing geek is a geek just as surely as a music nerd is a geek too.

Remember people, We Are Fam-i-lee!!

10/25/2004

 
Blogger Amanda Marcotte said...

I may not count either way--I've never worn glasses and probably won't have to until I'm elderly. I do not, therefore, have the critical element to pull together the nerd/geek chic look. And in our shallow society, it's all about the looks, right? ;)

10/25/2004

 
Blogger Amanda Marcotte said...

Hmmm....my cardigan died. I don't wear glasses, but most importantly, I would die before I would wear ugly shoes.

If you wear strappy heels, do you lose your geek status then and there? :P

10/25/2004

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To save time and effort deciding wether to be a geek or a nerd, I have decided to be a Neek (Half nerk, half geek). I am neither geek or nerd, (I dont like chess but there are more nerdish things that werent included that I am and do)

To save the argument, just become NEEKS! Then you can mix and match the stuff you like and not anger anyone, unless you are hellbent on being either, then thats just foolish.

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