Mouse rant blog vent mouse.

Monday, February 28, 2005

But what about Dad?

Salon had a couple of angry letters this week in response to an interview with Judith Warner about the burdens of motherhood and her dismissive response to the idea that a lot of women's problems would be alleviated if men did their fair share of the housework and childcare. One of the letters is a self-congratulatory letter from a man who says that he does his fair share of the work, and he wants a cookie for doing what he's supposed to do.

My wife and I have two children, ages 3 1/2 and 18 months. We are both attorneys; she works for a private firm and I work in the public sector. While my schedule is less flexible in terms of when I am where, it is more regular and allows for more generous sick time, family or otherwise. As a result I do the majority of the daycare drop-off pick-up and sick time with sick children, and care at home is very much a joint effort. I would argue that the same is true of my immediate peers. I would be interested to see the statistic that shows that this generation of "lost cause" fathers devotes the same or lesser efforts to their children's well-being than those in the past.

While there is no question that across the board the situation could not be defined as equal, I would hazard a guess that significant progress has been made in terms of fathers' active involvement in meeting their children's day-to-day needs. Characterizing this entire "generation" of fathers as a "lost cause" is as insulting as healthcare professionals who assume I do not know my children's medical history, daycare providers who refuse to address issues to me and instead wait to see my wife, whom they see far less frequently, or individuals who practically give me a gold star for correctly stating my children's birthdays.

One wonders if he's not looking for praise for doing his job as a father why he wrote in to brag on himself. I assure you there are far more pressing problems in the world than a doctor who can't understand that dad does doctor duty. The ugly truth is that while men on the whole are doing better, they aren't doing their fair share yet. And the recent uptick in men's housework hours that has pushed men's work into being a little more than half of women's probably doesn't mean that men as a whole are doing more, but just that the few that do their fair share are pulling up the numbers and making everyone look better.

Salon cleverly published this Cary Tennis letter next to the letters of complaint. The letter-writer's partner has pushed all the domestic duties onto her, including care for her two and his two children. Not surprisingly, she is tired and miserable all the time, but whenever she tries to take a break for herself, everyone in the family complains. Cary sensibly advises that she make her strikes stick--capitulating at the first complaint is making them realize that all they need to sacrifice is some whine time and they will get her to do everything. Well, and her partner has sacrificed sex and the pleasure of having a happy partner. It's hard from the inside to see it, but from the outside it's easy to see that a man who will give up sex and a good relationship with his partner in order to avoid doing some housework is someone who isn't going to just up and do the right thing after a mere one-day strike on her part.

It's an interesting letter and answer, but Cary drops the ball when he characterizes feminism as a philosophy that ignores economics.

Now, the slogan of the 1970s that launched a thousand domestic arguments was not "The personal is economic!" but "The personal is political!" A slogan must sound good to work right. "The personal is economic!" doesn't sound good; it trippeth not pleasingly on the tongue. Plus economics was not a sexy subject like politics. So you had men and women battling about the distribution of household labor in intimate relationships as though they were political adversaries rather than actors in a marketplace. If the battle cry had been "The personal is economic!" maybe there would have been less zero-sum political bluffing and calling of bluffing and more businesslike partnering toward mutual profit and "win-win" situations all around, including lunches at the Copper Penny and occasional gift certificates to Staples. Or maybe not. I'm just saying.

I guess he forgot about Marxist feminism. But the sad thing is that I think that liberal feminists tried to make housework and childcare a political issue instead of an economic issue precisely to avoid zero-sum thinking. The sexiness of politics and the possibility of a complete overhaul of the system we have now seems the only way to get men on board--they aren't going to "lose" anything if everything is different.

But economics is a dry exchange and the losses are all too apparent. For instance, the letter-writer's partner knows exactly what he stands to lose if he picks up his share of the domestic work--his time and energy. Hey, he sees how busy and tired she is all the time, so how could he not know how much time he could lose to this?

Cary is being coy, but he knows that striking is the last resort of workers after negotiations have ceased to work. And it does get read by those who are losing the cheap labor as disloyalty, so I'm sure it's even harder when the boss/worker relationship is also an intimate one. Anyway, reading this letter I realized that I would be a really bad union organizer. My first thought when the letter-writer said that her family complains when she tries to strike is to laugh at them and remind them how much they demand from someone who knows where they sleep. An ominous laugh might help, too. Yep, I would be giving protection money to gangsters in no time.

170 Comments:

Blogger BlondebutBright said...

Great post! Mr. self-pity needs to suck it up and realize that he's not a part of the status quo. Maybe it's the callous liberal in me, but those who have enjoyed the better end of the deal for centuries need to suffer a little bit when the times change.

2/28/2005

 
Blogger Pseudo-Adrienne said...

You know there are still fathers who believe and say whenever they watch their own children, they refer to it as "babysitting". Even though it's their own damn progeny! And, if the big lug decides to do the dishes he tells his female partner, "I'll give ya a break tonight". It still amazes and infuriates me that some guys believe that they have zero obligation to do their fair share around the home, and still believe in that "cult of Domesticity" nonsense.

And I thought guys like this had been discontinued. They still make these guys?

So the guy knows how to do the dishes and cares for his children. That's what parents are supposed to do, regardless of their sex. Wah-wah, woe is the poor guy who wants a biscut doing what's he's supposed to do; equally help around the home and within the realm of childcare.

Your female spouse will be a lot happier if you just do your job around the home and with the kids, and stop whining for not getting any special attention for it.

2/28/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm sorry, what letter did you people read? "Mr. Self-Pity" never referred to his child care duties as "babysitting" and never suggested that he expected "special treatment" from his wife. (It's entirely possible he does, but that would be an inference without much in the actual letter to back it up.)

Whether he deserves "special treatment" from YOU is another question. Aren't you happy for his wife that she has found the man who is the exception to the rule? It sure doesn't sound like it. I'll agree that those of us men who do share the household responsibilities don't deserve medals for doing what we ought to do anyway, but we also don't deserve to get slapped around ("lost generation" indeed--talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy) and then dismissed when we have the sheer gall to stand up and say, "you know, I'm not like that."

If this is how you treat men who are doing what you claim you want to see, then I think I'll just fess up to swilling beer on the couch while I watch Monday Night Football and hope nobody ever finds out about the laundry or those trips to the dentist.

2/28/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

Now you want us to lick his ass? Damn.

Look, the guy's whole point is that because he does his duty that Warner was out of line saying that men are a lost cause. He's wrong--he knows he's the exception that proves the rule, so why can't we take a look at the rule?

Nice the way you think we are moaning and groaning in jealousy that a woman got one of the "good" ones. I don't see that anywhere and am in fact amused because when I read his letter the first thing I thought was, "Damn I'm glad I don't have their life."

2/28/2005

 
Blogger Roxanne said...

My blessed husband does about 95% of the housework. And whenever I say "thank you" for doing this, that, or the other, he says, "what are you thanking me for?"

I think I'll keep him.

2/28/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The rule will never change as long as women insist on dismissing any man with the gall to point out that he's an exception to the rule.

2/28/2005

 
Blogger shannon said...

Well, the thing is that if the privleged expect to be patted on the back for doing what they are supposed to do they are going to be critized. The real measure of whether you have changed is if you do stuff without abundant thanks- JUST LIKE WOMEN DO.

2/28/2005

 
Blogger delagar said...

Anonymous Translated: Men should be celebrated and applauded for doing their fair share of household work. And women are whiny babies if they point out how goofy this notion is.

2/28/2005

 
Blogger Rousseau said...

Re: the first letter. He did not ask for praise. He did not even say the rule was not true. Hell, he did not even claim to do as much work as the wife. Just said a) progress is happening, and b) there are things our society does that do not help men move towards equal parentship.

But hey, we get to jump and attack a guy who claims to be anywhere near the feminist ideal. That's clearly more important.

(And yes, it is a bad thing if a man does what he should be doing in the first place and demands special rewards. But that clearly wasn't this guy, and hell, there isn't much evidence to suggest it's a problem in society at all (compared to say men who just don't care), beyond thought experiments in pop culture, ie bad sitcoms.)

2/28/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

That a few men do their fair share isn't cause for rejoicing so much as evidence that Warner was absolutely right--men, as a whole, aren't pulling their fair share to the point that the few exceptions stand out and we feel this urge to praise and coddle them for what their wives will do without much thanks their whole lives. How about men start shaming each other a little if they want things to change instead of asking women to take on the responsibility to make sure men do what they're supposed to?

2/28/2005

 
Blogger jeff said...

Asslicking aside...

Seems to me that the letter writer was trying to use anecdotal evidence to make the point that there may have been more progress than the original article suggested. I mean, he doesn't say only look at the exception and don't look at the rule. Instead, he says, " I would be interested to see the statistic that shows that this generation of "lost cause" fathers devotes the same or lesser efforts to their children's well-being than those in the past.He doesn't even intimate that he's not the exception that proves the rule! He says, "While there is no question that across the board the situation could not be defined as equal," which seems to me to imply the opposite of what you accuse him of meaning; he then goes on to GUESS that "significant progress has been made in terms of fathers' active involvement in meeting their children's day-to-day needs." You can rightly argue that significant progress has NOT been made, that it's a bad guess, but why does his making such a wrong guess make him self-pitying, etc.? It makes him wrong. That doesn't change the actual tone of his letter (vs what seems to be projected upon it).

Also: Isn't anectdotal evidence just the sort of evidence that could say that men aren't a lost cause? Pointing out counterexamples to a theory is a time-tested way of pointing out that a theory may go too far toward the absolute, even if the basics of the theory are correc t.

Seems to me that the guy is only trying to say, "Hey, if Warner is right, what does that say about men like me? Where do we fit into this theory?"

2/28/2005

 
Blogger Ron said...

I think you are off-base on this one. The letter writer specifically said he finds it insulting when people give him praise: (...individuals who practically give me a gold star for correctly stating my children's birthdays)There is resistance to defying gender expectations. I think he was just expressing some of his frustrations with defying current cultural assumptions. Heaping scorn on him for not stoically taking it is not very productive.

2/28/2005

 
Blogger Ron said...

I think you are off-base on this one. The letter writer specifically said he finds it insulting when people give him praise: (...individuals who practically give me a gold star for correctly stating my children's birthdays)There is resistance to defying gender expectations. I think he was just expressing some of his frustrations with defying current cultural assumptions. Heaping scorn on him for not stoically taking it is not very productive.

2/28/2005

 
Blogger zuzu said...

I'm going to have to agree with those who don't see this guy as self-pitying or looking for praise. I think he points out a legitimate problem in that as long as schools, doctors, etc., don't start challenging their own assumptions about who the child care provider can be, then the whole "child care is a woman's problem" thing is going to persist.

Notice also that in terms of salary, he's making less than his wife (I know; I've worked both in private and government law jobs, and believe me, the private sector pays much better). I'm sure nobody like that idiot Farrell will say that he's deliberately engineered a lower salary to have kids, though.

I don't think we should encourage men like this to pat themselves on the back for doing what they're supposed to be doing, but it would be a good thing to support them instead of tearing them down. There are plenty of legitimate Neanderthals out there -- like my soon-to-be-ex BIL who can't be bothered to watch the kids even though he's home half the day, but wants to take my nephew on an interstate booty call to play house with his high school girlfriend. With him, it's a control issue as well as an entitlement issue -- my sister has to cancel work functions and meetings because he refuses to cooperate with child care.

2/28/2005

 
Anonymous Me said...

Are families really like this?

My mom did most of the share of the household duties like cleaning (my dad always has helped with the cooking much to her annoyance, the male side of my family all are frustrated chefs). But as far as child-rearing he was always involved. He took me to Little League games, Drs. appointments, helped me with my homework and college applications, helped me with forming a career. He's always been an incredibly active participant in my life.

And if I think just of my friends' dads and my relatives, they are all involved in family life. Most men I talk to would give anything to spend more time with their children.

But I think that Mr. Goldstar isn't really the exception as far as I've seen in my life.

2/28/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

In all honesty, my idea was not so much to tear him down but to demonstrate that his defensiveness was misplaced--if he is the exception that proves the rule, then the question is not, "Why doesn't Warner acknowledge the rare men like me?" The question is, "Why aren't more men like me?" Which is exactly what Warner was saying--at this point, she felt like changing the vast majority of men in her generation is a lost cause.

2/28/2005

 
Blogger Jake Squid said...

I think that the point (and counter-point) of Mr. First Letter is being missed. He is not saying that he is the exception to the rule. He is not saying that men have merely made progress in the arena of domestic chores, but that they are so close to being equal that women should stop whining so much about it. And then he kills his own point when he expresses his indignation that doctors are surprised that he knows his own children's medical history. Hey, buddy, why do you think that the doctors are surprised? Ya think that it could be because most fathers that they deal with have no clue as to their child's medical history? If that's the case, tell me again how much progress this generation has made.

Sputter.

2/28/2005

 
Anonymous mythago said...

Aren't you happy for his wife that she has found the man who is the exception to the rule?I'd be happier if he wasn't the exception.

Look, I also disagree that the guy was looking for back-patting. But I do see why people are ticked off--he seems to be saying that his situation is only SOMEWHAT the exception, because he and his public-sector (i.e. probably unionized, 40-hour-week) friends are responsible dads, that's representative of a plurality of dads.

I quite sympathize with him on the problem of other people being idjits about it. It IS insulting when people are surprised a dad remembers his kids' birthays.

By the way, I don't believe such men are merely 'picked.' Gender socialization works on us all--I can't tell you how many women I know brag about their "egalitarian" male partners and then start to waffle and make excuses when it turns out that, gollygee, she still does all the laundry and schedule-keeping and he "helps", etc.

2/28/2005

 
Blogger jeff said...

I don't read him as being defensive at all, actually--I read him as pointing out a counterexample. One can do that without being defensive, and his language seems pretty neutral to me in that regard. Could you point out, Amanda, what phrases/sentences make him out to be defensive? Because I think he could point out everything he did point out without that necessitating that he's being defensive.

Also, I don't think his statements preclude EITHER of the questions that you note in your comment: "Why doesn't Warner acknowledge the rare men like me?" or "Why aren't more men like me?" He IS pointing out that there are at least some men like him. Given that there are some, he might be asking, why think that it's a completely lost cause?

2/28/2005

 
Blogger drumgurl said...

I think the guy should complain when the daycare providers won't deal with him, and instead wait for the mother. Isn't that insulting to both genders? Maybe they wait to deal with the mom, and she says, "Gee, I don't know how to answer your questions. Let me call my husband."

And I can see the indignation in not being recognized when you're the minority. For example, let's say I'm playing a gig and every chick in the bar is a groupie, except for me. Am I offended when I'm mistaken for a groupie? You bet.

If things are going to change, then gender roles need to become less stringent for both women AND men. One can't happen without the other.

2/28/2005

 
Anonymous Julian Elson said...

Well, the thing is that if the privleged expect to be patted on the back for doing what they are supposed to do they are going to be critized. The real measure of whether you have changed is if you do stuff without abundant thanks- JUST LIKE WOMEN DO. -- Shannon.

My personal view is that it's not that men's housework is overappreciated and given overly abundant thanks, but that it is women's housework that is underappreciated and taken for granted. If we're going to achieve parity in how we value housework done by men and women, I personally would prefer we do it by raising the social valuation of women's housework and no longer taking for granted as the "default" state to lowering the social valuation of men's housework so that we take housework done by both sexes for granted and assumed.

2/28/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think you're seriously misreading that first dad's letter. He's asking for higher standards for dads, godammit and you accuse him of self-aggrandizement! And saying that "if that's the worst of his troubles, then blah blah blah (I can't see your post and forgot to copy that section)" is a logical fallacy, or should be. Well, you have a broken arm? I have NO arm! You're half-alive? Well, I'M DEAD!!! quitcher bitchin'! Dads who want higher standards for dads and want to be treated like just as important a parent as mothers are on your side.

3/01/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

Julian, I think your point is well-taken and a great, positive way to address this issue.

3/01/2005

 
Blogger Toy Soldier said...

Actually, there are a lot of men like him. It is completely unfair to just assume that these fathers are the exceptions to the rule and then turn around and complain about gender roles. It could be that the reason why doctors give fathers like him funny looks is because of the doctor’s assumption that fathers won’t know. The same thing is true for men remembering their children’s birthdays. To write the guy off as wanting a pat on the back is a cop-out, plain and simple. These men are becoming the rule. And most of them simply don’t have the time, or the desire, to try to convince you. You would probably have more of their support if you didn’t want to continue to support gender roles, and extended to them the same consideration you would extend to women.

3/02/2005

 
Blogger Toy Soldier said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

3/02/2005

 
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Cuddle Time : When couples first start dating, cuddling is usually a part of their everyday existence.

Make the Women Feel Good : Just like men, woman love feeling good about themselves.

Showing Love : Although hearing the words, I love you is special and important.

Realistic Expectations : No matter how wonderful and flawless your mate seems, no one is perfect.

Go on a Date : Especially for married couples, but even for some dating couples, start dating.

Control Your Anger : Every relationship has difficulties, and sometimes, there can be some intense arguments.

I Forgive You : If something has happened in your relationship causing the trust to waiver, you will have many things to work through.

Day at the Movies : Have a movie marathon some rainy or cold Saturday.

Dinner by the Fire : Order in some of your favorite food, open a bottle of fine wine, light some candles.

A Day at the Spa : Show your appreciation for the hard work that takes.

Keep in Touch : It is important that you keep in touch with each other often.

Motivate Each Other : Find a mutual incentive that will motivate both of you.

Adore your Mate : Appreciate and love them for the person they are.

Make Eye Contact : Think back to the first time you saw your now mate.

Respect Privacy : When two people come together in a relationship, each person has their own set of history.

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