Mouse rant blog vent mouse.

Friday, February 25, 2005

You gave up your freedom when you chose to have ovaries

No one tell the wingnuts that female fetuses have ovaries and a uterus before they're born, or they might start putting forward bills demanding DNA sex testing before abortions get approved. Just kidding! After all, the daughter of the woman you force to bear children against her will today is the woman you'll be forcing the same thing on tomorrow.

Molly Ivins brings this home in this week's column about the Texas legislature's attempt to turn parental notification laws into parental consent laws by simply reprinting some of the requests for a judicial bypass. Warning--I nearly cried reading some of these.

"My little sister was raped. Our parents are somewhere in Mexico, but I don't know if I can find them." -- older sister.

Grandmother of a 15-year-old: "She just told us that she was raped. We had no idea that she was pregnant. Her mother is dead, and her father is being transferred to (another prison). Is there any way we can get this done?"

"My mother's boyfriend used to hit her and sometimes I would try to stop him, but then he'd start hitting me. I left home to live with my boyfriend when I found out I was pregnant the first time. My mother wouldn't let me have an abortion, so I knew a baby would be safer living away from her and her boyfriend. But my boyfriend started hitting me as soon as I moved in. So I got my own place, a car and two jobs. I'm pregnant again, but I can't tell my mom because she would stop me from getting an abortion." -- 17-year-old high school graduate, mother of a 2-year-old daughter, father deceased.

Parental notification/consent laws are sold to the public as a way that the government can keep your darling daughter from turning into Jezebel behind your back. In reality, they function to punish young women for the crime of having parents they can't turn to when they have problems. I like to think of them as laws that seem perversely designed to help rapists who prefer minors in their charge as victims. Even if you are one of those who think that all women should fulfill their potential to be mothers, even if they are very young, would you really go so far as to say that they should even if the father is her own father?

Anyone who supports parental notification/consent laws needs also to stop and think about the logic. It's not enough to say, "I would want my daughter to tell me if she had an abortion!" Wouldn't you also like your daughter to tell you if she planned to have the baby? Some parents would like to force abortion on their unwilling daughters, but there are no laws helping them. If you think minors aren't fully capable of deciding to have an abortion, why do you think they're capable of being mothers? Must not think much of motherhood, if that's the case.

And of course, lest we women start getting uppity and thinking that our right to privacy actually means that we have a right to privacy like we were non-ovaried Americans, the attorney general of Kansas is here to put us in our places.

The Kansas attorney general is demanding abortion clinics turn over the complete medical records of nearly 90 women and girls, saying he needs the material for an investigation into underage sex and illegal late-term abortions.

Two clinics are fighting the request in Kansas Supreme Court, saying the state has no right to such personal information.

But Attorney General Phill Kline, an abortion opponent, insisted Thursday: "I have the duty to investigate and prosecute child rape and other crimes in order to protect Kansas children."

Of course, we all know that Kline is being disingenous with his blather about protecting underage rape victims. Rape victims who avail themselves of their right not to bear their rapists' children are the ones who will be treated like criminals, having their files poked through and families interrogated. Those who bravely endured having a child by their rapist apparently have been punished enough for the crime of being a victim of a sex crime.

The other women who will be under scrutiny will be teenagers who presumably had consensual sex and had to get abortions and women who had late-term abortions. Like Kline, we can assume the latter category is a bunch of selfish bitches who waited until after 22 weeks to terminate their pregnancies because it's more fun to get abortions later. We can safely assume that none of them waited because they intended to have the baby and then found out that they couldn't or shouldn't for health reasons.

Okay, okay, okay. It's silly to think that there are hoardes of women waiting for 5 months to terminate their pregancies simply for the thrills. They may have had medical reasons, but it's selfish for a woman to want to keep her life instead of fulfilling her duty to suffer and perhaps die for the sake of right wing ideaology, is it not?

548 Comments:

Blogger ms. jared said...

and did you see that the georgia house overwhelmingly approved (139-35) HB 197 that would require a 24-hour waiting period in addition to tightening parental notification laws?

i don't know why we even worry about them turning over roe. every day they find another way to chip away at it so eventually it's going to be moot anyway.

happy friday! ugh.
xoxo, jared

2/25/2005

 
Blogger Scott Lemieux said...

To state the obvious, here is the underlying motiviation behind American abortion law:

Protecting Fetal Life: 0%
Controlling Female Sexuality: 100%

If the Kansas case doesn't make this clear, I don't know what will.

2/25/2005

 
Blogger Pseudo-Adrienne said...

Doesn't it seem rather cowardice for the anti-choice/anti-women zealots to "hit" women bellow the belt in their attempts and desire to control us via our sex/reproductive organs? Oh wait, that's right...they ARE cowards, that's why they pull this shit! Silly me ;-)

"Protecting Fetal Life: 0%
Controlling Female Sexuality: 100%"
Bingo! You get a cookie!

2/25/2005

 
Blogger Anne said...

ms. jared, at least they took out the part requiring the abortion-breast cancer lie.

2/25/2005

 
Blogger zuzu said...

That piece of shit in Kansas, if he's so concerned about statutory rape, should be focusing on birth records, which are public. You can be sure there are a fuckload more girls under 16 giving birth than getting late-term abortions. And for that matter, there are far more abortions performed in the first 22 weeks of pregnancy than thereafter. Why isn't he seeking those records if his intent is truly to ferret out child sexual predators instead of punishing those who get or perform late-term abortions?

2/25/2005

 
Anonymous Vito said...

Call the guy. Phill Kline's office number is (785) 296-2215. If you tell them what you're calling about, they'll put you right through to his voice mail. Or write him at 120 SW 10th Ave., 2nd Floor, Topeka, KS 66612-1597. Or fax him a letter at (785) 296-6296. Let's tell him what his country thinks of this violation of privacy.

2/25/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amanda, you allude to it in your Dan Savage post, and commenters above have it too. To the extreme right, pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections are God's chosen punishments for straying from the patriarchal rules of sex (that is, having sex outside of male ownership).

(And while they don't say it outright, you sometimes catch them admitting the exact same logic when it comes to HIV and the gay community.)

They think the whole world went wrong when medical science gave people better tools to avoid these consequences.

They have tried scolding in the form of abstinence-only education, but nothing keeps horny teens from having sex. So instead, if they make contraception and abortion unavailable and convince young people that there is no way to prevent STI's other than Holy Matrimony(TM), they can re-establish the proper, divinely ordained plagues.

Thomas

2/25/2005

 
Blogger Riggsveda said...

Yes, I know. If Kline was so touchingly full of Mercy's milk and interested in curbing incest, he's be setting up outreach in the schools, monitoring foster homes, and taking other steps to prevent and prosecute. Instead he uses it as a pitifully transparent ploy to torment the kids who are suffering. He's a piece of work and no mistake. God, I wonder where people get the idea that these little tyrants who occupy the Republican party are compassionate, or the least bit interested in anyone's welfare other than there own?

2/25/2005

 
Blogger zuzu said...

Riggsveda, exactly. I'm thinking about it purely as a litigator, i.e., you just don't ask for really intrusive discovery until you've exhausted other possibilities and there's simply no other way to get the information. But the 10-16 year olds he's allegedly trying to protect will more often have the baby than have a late-term abortion. And, frankly, it's more likely than not that a pregnant 10-year-old will draw some notice at school. There are far better ways to accomplish what he *says* he's trying to accomplish that don't involve prying into medical records.

2/25/2005

 
Anonymous Richard 23 said...

Right-Wing Sanity Assassin:

"What about the fetus? Where is their choice? Apart from the minor detail that abortion is murder, it is also a very selfish act.... So you were raped and now you're pregnant? Deal with it. So your daddy knocked you up? Deal with it. So your life/health is at risk? Deal with it. So the fact that someones life is at risk makes it ok to take a baby's life? makes no sense to me. Abortion just makes a mockery of life." - Liam_, POD Warrior Forum

Gosh, girl, it must be God's will.
Not religious? Oh well, burn...

Authoritarian little aholes, aren't they?

http://users.rcn.com/rostmd/winace/fundies/

2/26/2005

 
Anonymous mina said...

"So your life/health is at risk? Deal with it. ... Abortion just makes a mockery of life"

Wow. My contradiction detector just burst!

Wingnut logic never ceases to fascinate me.

2/26/2005

 
Blogger Charlie said...

This is Kline's second recent foray into wingnuttery. He's also voiced his support for the Kansas State Board of Education adding stickers to high school biology textbooks claiming that evolution is a theory, not a fact.

I'm of the opinion that both of these issues are a large problem of Kline's: he doesn't respect the wall of seperation between church and state. I talk in a little more detail here about this idea.

2/26/2005

 
Blogger john_m_burt said...

Here's what my postcard said:

"Mr. Kline: Even way out in Oregon, we have heard about your desire to publicly humiliate and sexually exploit underage girls who seek abortions, and we will not tolerate it."

2/27/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am really tired of hearing about how abortion is all about saving women's lives. And that opposing notification and consent law means condoning incest and making raped girls bear babies.

Combined percentages for rape/incest and the incidences when the mother's life is in danger account for approximately 3% of all abortions.The majority are perfomed for far more mundane reasons.

Frequently given reasons for abortion:

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/facts/
reasonsabortions.html

how 'life threatening' does any of that sound to you?

And, yes, parents should know if their daughter is planning an abortion. Would you really like to find out after the fact,were you a parent?

2/27/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

You're convienently ignoring the fact that girls who have good relationships with their parents go to them for help when they get pregnant. The girls who are afraid to tell their parents have good reasons, usually, not the least being they have ogres for parents who will beat them and disallow the girl to make this decision for herself.

And yes, I'd far rather have a daughter get an abortion behind my back than hide the pregnancy until it was too late so that had a grandchild to take care of that I didn't ask for.

2/27/2005

 
Blogger Tuli said...

If you think minors aren't fully capable of deciding to have an abortion, why do you think they're capable of being mothers? Must not think much of motherhood, if that's the case.

2/27/2005

 
Blogger Tuli said...

"If you think minors aren't fully capable of deciding to have an abortion, why do you think they're capable of being mothers? Must not think much of motherhood, if that's the case."

You really capture the entire argument here by pointing out the contradiction inherent in their argument. Thanks for getting to the point!

2/27/2005

 
Anonymous cara said...

It doesn't matter all that much what Texas wants to do. SCOTUS has ruled that there has to be a judicial bypass process. It might make things a little harder, but it has to be possible. Texas already has a parental notification law, which apparently can be bypassed as well. I'm sure consent will be no different from notification. I wish it was easier for these girls...

2/27/2005

 
Anonymous bruce in oz said...

One other interesting note about Mr. Kline and his wholesale approach to ferreting out crime: here in Kansas, statuatory rape is gender neutral. Nowhere does he mention a quest for boys 16 or younger medical records. He's pathetic.

These kind of guys are so common in the "wheat state" that they don't even give us a bad name anymore.

peace

2/27/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not 'conveniently ignoring ' anything. It goes without saying that some parents could hear about their daughter's pregnancy and not go wild...some parents won't. There are no provisions in these laws so that another adult can be consulted? Another relative, a guidance counsellor, in the event the parents aren't able to be consulted ,or are absent? If not, then these laws are poorly thought out and I'd oppose them on that basis alone.

"And yes, I'd far rather have a daughter get an abortion behind my back than hide the pregnancy until it was too late so that had a grandchild to take care of that I didn't ask for."

You've proved my point beautifully. I don't want to hear ONE more woman crying for abortion to save women's lives. It's damn near all about convenience. You'd let your daughter go through an abortion alone- better than being stuck with an unplanned grandchild.

2/27/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

"Convienence" is me wanting a hypothetical daughter to take care of herself and her family and not having other people subvert their life choices so that you have a degree more comfort in your life?

Talk about male entitlement. I'm supposed to view mine and my family's future as less important than your political beliefs.

2/27/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

""Convienence" is me wanting a hypothetical daughter to take care of herself and her family and not having other people subvert their life choices so that you have a degree more comfort in your life?"

Where does 'a dgree more comfort' in MY life come into this discussion? The rallying cry for feminists to preserve Roe is based on the need to have abortion available in cases of rape or incest right? And I gave you statistics which belie this 'noble' cause by showing you that only 3% of all abortions are perormed for rape and incest, and a threat to the mother's life. My link showed that women get abortions because a baby would interfere with a career, or they're 'not ready for motherhood' which are 'convenience reasons'.They have nothing to do with rape or incest.Which shows that the hue and cry about abortion being so necessary is false. Why not just campaign with the slogan "Because we want one"? Dont' bother with the emotional spector of all those raped women who get abortions( 3% of 1,700,000+).Just be truthful about it.

With you declaring-

"And yes, I'd far rather have a daughter get an abortion behind my back than hide the pregnancy until it was too late so that had a grandchild to take care of that I didn't ask for."

it seems as if we're discussing the degree of comfort of YOUR life though. Having minors able to get abortions without parental consent ,without parent's knowledge, is sure comfortable for the parents.No hurt, no hand-wringing, no sadness at your kid's having screwed up.

I think it's a matter of sexual responsibility. Here are some figures on teen pregnancy and abortion as compared to other countries-

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publications/
factsheet/fsest.htm

Why is America having so many more teen pregnancies and abortions than other countries? Why not deal with the underlying problems rather than the results?

2/27/2005

 
Blogger ripley said...

anonymous, what's your point?

Your 3% statistic is for *all* abortions, not for ones affected by parental consent laws. A relevant would be the percentage of abortions performed on women/girls who require parental consent that are rape and incest cases. I await that statistic. I'd like to know where you get it from, as well.

And all of the countries listed on the list who have lower teen pregnancy rates.. have legalized abortion. And no consent laws that I am aware of.

I agree, the underlying problems need to be dealt with. But making abortion difficult to get will disproportionately affect those in the weakest position. Why make it so much harder for them? One of the underlying problems is that young people in the US have few other than their parents to turn to if they are in a bind. There isn't enough of a social support system to give them economic autonomy, especially regarding health care. How does further binding pregnant women to their parents improve their position?

2/28/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

Actually, our rallying cry is that we shouldn't have to turn our life decisions over to a bunch of fucktards who have a mysterious interest in punishing us for what happens in and around our uteruses. But yes, it is stomach-turning the way that anti-choicers are willing to sacrifice rape and incest victims in order to punish the rest of us for consensual sex. I'm glad that you think we mere women owe it to you to be "inconvienced" by having our lives turned inside out and control of our bodies handed over to the state in order to satisfy your need for female sexuality to have its punishments. But that's just not the way it works, Bubba. Why don't you give women a rest for a little bit and start picking on straight men for having sex?

2/28/2005

 
Blogger Pseudo-Adrienne said...

Because men don't have uteruses and ovaries Amanda. Duh. How can you punish male sexuality if the state can't force them to be at the mercy of their bodies for nine months, because males lack the "equipment" necessary to do so?

2/28/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well it's less than 3% isn't it? 'Rape' covers all adult rape as well as juvenile rape. 'Incest' of course refers to minors, there very few if any cases of an adult woman getting pregnant by her father(incest isn't all that prevalent anyway, while we're at it).

Well I did look at the laws. And despite the fact that these laws are supposed to be controllling sexuality, plenty of options exist besides the parents,should a minor be afraid of her parents:

"SP Notice to step-parent in the same household permitted as an alternative to parent
A,U,S Consent of aunt, uncle or sibling at least 25 years old permitted as an alternative to parent
AFM Consent of an adult family member permitted as an alternative to parent
MH Notice to a licensed mental health professional permitted as an alternative to parent
[age] Age in brackets indicates consent or notice required only for minors under this age. Otherwise, consent or notice required for young women under 18."

Even a sibling can give consent if the parents refuse, so it's not so much of a trap as it's been painted to be.

Nobody is saying 'So you were raped? Deal with it!'

My 'point' being that you are focusing on less than 3% of all abortions (those requiring parental consent) and ignoring the million or so that are done for convenience.You don't care to acknowledge them as it contradicts the platform of abortion as a last ditch measure in dire circumstances.You just have to help all those rape victims. But to keep Roe intact, a little dishonesty never hurts, right?

I found it interesting, given that you espouse free reproductive choice, that you weren't too happy with your 'hypothetical daughter' having a grandchild before you were 'ready'. Isn't it HER choice?

"are willing to sacrifice rape and incest victims in order to punish the rest of us for consensual sex."

No, actually those would be the only conditions under which I WOULD consider abortion, so don't go putting words in my mouth, thank you kindly.

Whose talking about PUNISHMENT here? How about sexual responsibility? Taking all possible precautions so you don't get pregnant? If you think of motherhood as punishment than it's just as well that you're pro-abortion....

2/28/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

" you are focusing on less than 3% of all abortions (those requiring parental consent)"

should have read:
(those caused by rape and requiring parental consent).

I apologize for the error.

Total abortions for those under 20 is 14% annually give or take. As the statistics are quoted as being for 'under 20' it shaves some off the percentage needing parental consent ,those under 18.

The law, as you can see in my previous post, gives the young women in question many options for getting permission, including other relatives and even an older sibling. A far cry from Kerry's claim during the election debates that he was opposing those laws because they require 'a girl 16,17 who needs an abortion because she's been raped by her father to go to that father for permission'. He should be ashamed of himself for that claim, for it simply isn't true, and has given a false impression of these laws.

These laws will not keep a raped teenager from getting an abortion.I think any parent whose child comes home after being raped is going to have a clue, don't you?What parent would not give permission in this situation? Do you know of one?

Which brings me once again to my point that all the activism to keep Roe vs. Wade alive on behalf of those raped and victims of incest and of course the life-threatened, is based on a small percentage of all abortions, conditions under which no one would think of denying a woman an abortion.The fight for Roe is therefore, not an honest one.

The objection most conservatives have to abortion is abortion on demand, without a serious cause. NOT 'no abortion even if you're dying' NOT 'no abortion even if you were raped'. Not at all, just abortion when necessary.

Now can you answer me, any of you without calling names? I have yet to disparage anyone here.My name isn't 'Bubba'...

3/01/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

No, dude, you're definitely not Bubba. However, I am Bubba.

3/01/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

Here's my answer, though you missed it, Not Worthy of the Name Bubba. I'm sick of you and yours telling me that choices of what goes on in my own body and home are "convienence". Yes, abortion on demand and without apology. And it's pathetic that in order to control my sexuality you'll sacrifice the sanity of rape and incest victims. I know that's two thoughs to hold at once, but try to understand--abortion both for rape and incest victims, and for everyone else who wants one. However, you are FREE not to have one all you'd like. See how FREEDOM works?

3/01/2005

 
Anonymous Julian Elson said...

Well, it may be that pro-choicers have focused disproportionately on rape and incest victims (though really, the rallying cry of the pro-choice movement has been "Who chooses?" more than, "If you get raped or are a victim of incest, you'll want to be able to get an abortion, won't you?") Nonetheless, it's also true that the pro-life movement has also focused its attention on a small minority of actual abortions: those that take place after the first trimester is over, on viable fetuses. If the pro-choice movement's disproportionate attention paid to rape and incest victims makes them dishonest, does the pro-life movement's disproportionate attention paid to third-trimester abortions amake them dishonest?

3/01/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

' order to control my sexuality you'll sacrifice the sanity of rape and incest victims.'

Either you're being purposely obtuse or you're just not reading my answers completely. You threw this at me earlier and I answered it:

'"are willing to sacrifice rape and incest victims in order to punish the rest of us for consensual sex."

No, actually those would be the only conditions under which I WOULD consider abortion, so don't go putting words in my mouth, thank you kindly.'

So, refute me with statistics, links. You want to prove that the right wants to make rape victims give birth, you provide me with proof. I have given you statistics etc and you have just implied that I am of below-average intelligence ( 'I know that's two thoughs to hold at once, but try to understand--')and written sarcastic posts that prove nothing.

Quick! You're looking more and more unable to respond with anything more than knee-jerk insults by the minute!

3/01/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'does the pro-life movement's disproportionate attention paid to third-trimester abortions amake them dishonest?'

I would say yes, if that is the case. My friends and I do not usually frame it in those terms, and you see, I have not brought it up.It would be just as dishonest, yes.

PBA is a gruesome procedure, I would like to see that banned. PBA accounts for 0.04% of all abortions. Usually a problem with either mother or baby is discovered well before viability.

3/01/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

parents can't know about abortions but they have to pay for any complications and have to approve any other "procedure"

and your fake little sob stories are why there are judicial bypasses

8/26/2005

 
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The U.S. Government is the nation's largest provider of financial assistance to women & minority owned small businesses. The U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA) is Congressionally mandated to assist the nation’s small businesses in meeting their financing needs. The SBA has small business loan programs and services to meet most small business needs. More information on U.S. Government Small Business Loans can be found at **www.SBASmallBusinessLoans.com**

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When a small business owner applies to a lending institution for a business loan, the lender reviews the application and decides if it merits a busiuness loan or if it requires an SBA guaranty. SBA backing on the business loan is then requested by the lender. In guaranteeing the business loan, the SBA assures the lender that, in the event the borrower does not repay the loan, the government will reimburse the lender for its loss. By providing this guaranty, the Small Business Administration helps tens of thousands of small business owners get financing they would not otherwise obtain.

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Low Documentation Loan (SBALowDoc)

SBALowDoc is the SBA’s quick and easy program that provides a guaranty on small business loans of $150,000 or less. Once you have met your lender’s requirements for credit, the lender may request an SBALowDoc guaranty for up to 85 percent of the loan amount. You complete the front of a one-page SBA application, and the lender completes the back. At SBALowDoc centers, the agency processes completed applications within 36 hours.

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CommunityExpress

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• CommunityExpress focuses on predesignated geographic areas that primarily low- and moderate-income urban and rural areas.

• The maximum loan amount under CommunityExpress is $250,000.

• CommunityExpress lenders, together with the National Community Reinvestment Coalition, provide hands-on technical training and support, both before and after loan closings, through community-based, nonprofit NCRC member organizations.

7(m) Microloan Program

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What can I use the loan proceeds for?

You can use an SBA small business loan to:

• expand or renovate facilities;
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How do I repay the loan?

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How do I get started?

You submit a business loan application to a lender for initial review. If the lender approves the business loan subject to an SBA guaranty, a copy of the loan application and a credit analysis are forwarded by the lender to the nearest SBA office. After SBA approval, the lending institution closes the business loan and disburses the funds; you make monthly loan payments directly to the lender. As with any loan, you are responsible for repaying the full amount of the loan. Visit **www.SBASmallBusinessLoans.com** for more info.

10/31/2005

 
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10/31/2005

 
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10/31/2005

 
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