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Wednesday, December 01, 2004

I'm seriously puzzled

This is the second time I've blogged about an all-women's college in a short period of time, and I think I'm just missing something.

From August Pollak I found this story about students at Wells, an all-women's college, suing to keep men out of the college until they graduate. They claim that they are victims of false advertising. I have no idea if they have a case, though my gut feeling is that they don't. And I sympathize with the college for wanting to bring men on campus--every year college recruiters for women's colleges have a harder and harder time convincing students to attend. Female college students generally want to go to school with male students for various reasons, not the least of which is they are eager to embrace the active dating life that they imagine college students have.

I know that's how I felt when I was looking at different universities. I didn't even want to live in a women's dorm because I was determined to have an active social life with male and female friends. I couldn't wait to get out and meet lots and lots of guys, not just two or three, that actually read books and listened to decent music and whatnot. Of course, it didn't work out quite that way for me, but I'm a weirdo.

Social reasons aside, I'm glad that I had men in my classes, particularly those where feminist issues came up. It was gratifying to me to hear that some men support feminism, even those who don't quite get it. Even more gratifying was seeing those who understood that to support feminism, you have to call out other men on their sexist behavior, which I got to see plenty of in college.

But those are just my experiences. I'm sure that there are experiences I didn't have that I would have going to a women's college. I'm certainly not one to tell someone that their reasons for going are invalid or anything like that. But I do have to say that I don't think it's a big enough deal to warrant a lawsuit. I can't see exactly what they are so worried that they will lose--the teachers will be the same, and their friends will be the same. And what I don't really understand is what an all-female enviroment is supposed to prepare you for. From the day you graduate until you die, you're going to have to work with men anyway, so why not start now in a college atmosphere?

I'm not trying to pick, seriously. But can anyone explain the appeal?

141 Comments:

Blogger wolfa said...

I think women might choose an all-girls school for a few reasons. There's less pressure to look good for classes, for one, and you get to sit in classes without getting harrassed. You also can develop your voice without men always putting it down -- it's good to have this experience, to test your voice in a safer environment (though thinking women are safer surprises me, somewhat). And you might think there's less pressure to be dating, too (I'm not sure if this is true or not; I know at some schools there's pressure *not* to be). Also it might be the only way your parents allow you to go to school.

You gain things in single-sex groups, just like you lose other things in single-sex groups. I also don't think it's worth a lawsuit -- there are other schools to transwer to -- but it's not weird to want to go to one and then be upset when they're changing it midstream.

12/01/2004

 
Blogger Laura said...

I work at an all-women's college and I think there is something to having a safer environment to test out your voice. It's funny, though, the students I work with most closely don't seem to have any problems with that and would probably have thrived at a co-ed college. Most of the students here are hardly isolated from men. We're in a consortium with two other colleges with co-ed populations. The students all take classes at these other schools and the students from these schools take classes here. I would imagine, too, that if a women is lesbian that an all-women's college would be a good choice, because the environment tends to support lesbianism in a way that might not be at other schools. I also think that there are some subjects--hard sciences and math, for example--that still are dominated by men and an all-women's college provides a less competitive and simply different approach to these subjects. As a key example, last year we graduated more female computer science majors than Yale. They had 3; we had 5. And we will be graduating that many again this year.

12/01/2004

 
Blogger Laura said...

I work at an all-women's college and I think there is something to having a safer environment to test out your voice. It's funny, though, the students I work with most closely don't seem to have any problems with that and would probably have thrived at a co-ed college. Most of the students here are hardly isolated from men. We're in a consortium with two other colleges with co-ed populations. The students all take classes at these other schools and the students from these schools take classes here. I would imagine, too, that if a women is lesbian that an all-women's college would be a good choice, because the environment tends to support lesbianism in a way that might not be at other schools. I also think that there are some subjects--hard sciences and math, for example--that still are dominated by men and an all-women's college provides a less competitive and simply different approach to these subjects. As a key example, last year we graduated more female computer science majors than Yale. They had 3; we had 5. And we will be graduating that many again this year.

12/01/2004

 
Blogger Earnest said...

As I understand it, the benefits of going to a women's college is that it's the last chance you have before moving into the fully-integrated "real world" to meet other motivated women, to excel with other women in classes where you might be a minority at a mixed college (engineering/science). Also, if you are involved in student organizations, you don't have to compete with males for leadership positions. The theory is that by not having to compete, you will be a better competitor. Imagine a situation in which you feel you would be more comfortable and perform better if there were more people like you around, and you'll see the appeal, for some, of the women's college. The next big issue for women's colleges will be transexuals. There's a big controversy over whether to admit them or not.

12/01/2004

 
Blogger Amanda said...

Unless that's come up already, my guess is that women's colleges will be extinct before that becomes an issue.

It occurs to me that I was perhaps a bit blind to the way that men are a threat in college because they seemed so much less so than in high school. In high school, boys were so clearly favored over girls that even the attempts to hide that in college seemed really enlightened. In high school, I would pull the Hermione stuff with my hand shoved straight in the air only to have the teachers pass me over looking desperately for life in the boys. In college, I regularly did better than the men without having to be twice as good, so I saw that as equality. And it might have been, but I have no way to know.

12/01/2004

 
Blogger Earnest said...

There was an AAUW study that came out that talked about the ways women were held back in high school due to favoritism toward boys. A couple years later that was report was dismissed for having been faulty, but by that time, the idea that, on a large scale, women were being held back in high school had already caught on. I'm not saying it doesn't happen; clearly at your school it happened.... I don't think I ever really wondered what it would be like going to an all-male school. I also don't see much appeal to a single-sex education. I just don't see where it would have been that much more of a benefit to me.

The transexual issue has already started popping up, but I don't see women's colleges going away. The stalwarts like Smith and Barnard don't seem to be hurting for students.

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Blogger zuzu said...

Well, Barnard doesn't really exist so much anymore as a completely separate entity; you still take classes at Columbia. It's not like a separate university, like Wellesley.

Are there that many 18-year-old transsexuals, either in the pre-op, living-as-women category, or post-op, that this would be a huge issue?

As for competition with males, I knew a few women in law school who could have used a little more time to season up in a single-sex environment before they got to law school, which is by nature highly competitive (but at least in the first-year classes, everyone has to speak in class). There was one woman in particular who got on my last nerve, since she prefaced every comment in class with a tiny, "Well, I was just going to say, um...." And she was the Editor in Chief of the Law Review!

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Blogger Rivki said...

Let me preface this with the fact that I am a Barnard alum, and I loved every minute of my time there. However, when I was applying for schools the last thing I wanted was to go to an all women's school. I ended up applying to Barnard because my parents made me (real mature, I know). I ended up attending Barnard because it was the best school I got into. In retrospect, it was the best decision of my life.

I have never been hesitant or intimidated in academic situations, and even though my social skills were less than stellar I was never afraid to raise my hand or my voice in class. I wasn't looking for a school that was going to toughen me up or give me leadership positions I may not have had in a coed environment. What I found at Barnard was something much more. I found a community. Now I'd be the last person to say that every Barnard student is a self-aware, self-proclaimed feminist, but there were many of us and we were visible. There's a sense of pride that comes from having attended Barnard, a sense of connection to all the women who have come before us and all those who will follow in our footsteps.

Feminism was the norm at my school and no one ever had to apologize for wanting to employ a feminist reading, or question whether well-respected studies and theorists had gender biases. Barnard was where I learned to pick out subtle indicators of sexism, like a commercial with fifty bankors only one of whom was female or the fact that the portraits depicted as holding headmasters and headmistresses in J.K.Rowling's book became 100% male when translated to the screen. A lot of people find it annoying when I point stuff like that out, but my Barnard friends just nod their heads or add their own observations.

I could go on and on about how our Deans and Professors and Administrators were incredibly involved and friendly. How we got routine phone calls from the Director of Student life addressing us as "Strong Barnard Women." How professors encouraged us to look beyond the status quo to see how sexism and mysogyny were pervasive on all levels of our society.

In some ways having that much time devoted to same-sex socializing was illuminating. I learned to recognize all of the stereotypes of women as just that, stereotypes. I knew women who were passive aggressive and others who were aggressive as hell. I met passive aggressive men too. I knew women who were passionately interested in science and found math to be simplistic and I found women who couldn't balance a check book. I knew women who bordered on misers and others who were profligate spenders. I knew socially mature empathetic women and women who had all the empathy and compassion of a rock. I met women who were desperately trying to figure out how to have a career and a family, other women who didn't care much for a career and still other women who were iffy on the idea of ever marrying or reproducing. In the end I realised that women, as well as men, stretch the whole gamut of human capabilities, interests and emotions. And we all worked together to try to figure out how we could best live the lives we wanted to live from the perspective of being a woman.

In the end the feeling of belonging to a broad community of women with common backgrounds and common goals was extraordinarily empowering. I have never had a problem dealing with men as equals or in work situations, so I didn't need preparation in that vein. What I did need, and what Barnard provided, was a strong sense of self and the comfort of knowing that I am not alone. Same sex education is not for everyone, but I found it incredibly, and suprisingly valuable.

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