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Wednesday, January 12, 2005

Male friendships and female humiliations

Hugo, though under the weather, has a really good post today about homosociality and how, in our culture at least, male bonding is so often attained at women's expense, especially friendships between younger men. Hugo uses catcalling as an example, and it's a very good one since most women can tell you, men don't catcall when they are by themselves. (In fact, the opposite. If a man alone wishes to harass you, he'll probably do it in way that doesn't call attention to himself.) He goes on to illustrate quite well how our construction of male-bonding as an anti-female activity affects even men who wouldn't think to harass or catcall a woman. I agree whole-heartedly, and I agree to the reasoning he uses.

Homosociality (as explained so well in Michael Kimmel's Manhood in America) is the principle that all men, including heterosexual ones, are raised in our culture to be more eager to please other men than women.

It's so true that it's invisible. What men will do to impress women is a joke in our culture, but what they will do to impress men tends to go even further, again especially amongst younger men.

Of course, the sexists that linger around the comments section would like to remind us uppity feminists that men should treat other men as more important than women. JeffJP on the subject that men should be more eager to please men than women:

And perhaps that's just as it ought to be.

I'm sure he didn't think through the consequences of what he says, since this sentence was just the beginning of a lame fisking attempt that only makes sense if you buy the assumption that women are just naturally dumber than men. And I'm sure that what he thinks the alternative to the bros before hos mentality is to put women in front of men, but in fact the alternative is to treat all people as equal and prioritize the people in your life according to your relationship to them, a lesson a lot of men have to learn the hard way.

See, it is harmful to women to treat us as objects to be ridiculed and excluded to strengthen men's friendships. But it's probably just as harmful to men in most circumstances. (Excluding homosocial extremes like gang rape.) I can tell you from personal experience that the lure of putting men before women can poison heterosexual relationships. As a young woman, I tolerated it when a boyfriend would sell me out, the person in the world to whom he was closest, in order to impress his friends. We've all been there--sexist jokes, blowing off dates to go out with friends, the uncomfortable sense that they are making jokes about how dumb you must be what with the girl thing and all behind your back. As a younger woman, I tolerated it, because I too thought that the only way men could be friends was at the expense of women and I didn't want to be the bitch who tells a man he can't have his friends.

But that stuff is poison. The person you cherish the most should be the person you cherish the most. While I know that guys who do this to women don't intend to signal loud and clear that they don't give a shit about her, that's the message that's received. And, as is true with a lot of things, you're sending the message to yourself that she's not that important after all. Which can be compelling, I think, right until she's gone. My ex suggested once that perhaps he mistreated me at the behest of his friends because they were jealous. I don't think that was probably as accurate as Hugo's little theory here.

There's a third model of friendships besides bros before hos and pussy-whipped models that we are so fond of. It's one where people are taken as individuals and each friendship is special in and of itself. A lot of conflict between men and women really does disappear when this model is embraced. For men, it's a lot easier, I think, because they aren't friends with men who pressure them to treat their wives or girlfriends badly to show loyalty to their friends. For women, it's a relief to know that just because your man is hanging out with his guy friends doesn't mean he's gonna come home acting like he suddenly feels nothing but contempt for you. I know that from my own experience, that famous female possessiveness disappears when your boyfriend's friends aren't openly threatening your relationship.

108 Comments:

Blogger Lanoire said...

men don't catcall when they are by themselves.Yeah. Although this may have as much to do with strength in numbers, and greater intimidation potential, as with bonding. If a guy by himself makes a comment at me, I won't hesitate to start shit with him. But if he's got a group of thugs backing him up...

It's worth noting that women do this too--focus on impressing each other rather than men. Like, in high school, girls would frantically try to make their make-up perfect--not for the guys, who wouldn't notice or care--but so that no girl would make catty comments about them. Although it's more prevalent among men, I think.

1/12/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Women definitely do this too. My sisters-in-law learned from their mom that husband-bashing is acceptable behavior. They all tell "stupid husband" jokes and stories. I started to fall into that pattern when I was first married but I realized I would rather preserve my marriage. He really is the most cherished person in my life. Now I make my husband look good and all my friends are jealous.
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Blogger Amanda said...

Good points, though I think "man-bashing" is heavily counter-balanced among women by "man-flattering". I have done my best to avoid both my whole life, so I get a little confused.

Still, young women that I know of are A LOT less likely to make fun of men in front of their faces and I've never seen a group of women harass a man on the street.

1/12/2005

 
Blogger echidne said...

This is very common in the military. Misogyny as the basis of male bonding. I recently read a review about a book which analyzes military songs from that point of view. Of course it's very common everywhere, and though women do something similar, it's nowhere near as prevalent nor does it start as early in life. At least my experience is that boys start this thing and later some girls respond in kind.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, man-bashing exists, but I don’t think it’s nearly as prevalent or does as much harm. The grooming and “beauty” rituals among teenager girls that Linnet refers to probably do have much more to do with female bonding than really attracting male attention. However, being attractive to men is still the stated goal, even if it is ineffective. This is a long ways from bonding over male-bashing or harassment.

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Off topic--

I feel sort of silly saying this, but when I first read this post, I panicked, because my name if Jeff, I sometimes comment on this blog, and I often 'sign' my comments with 'jp'--my initials. I figured that maybe I said something that was misinterpreted or some such, or that I blew it big time.

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Join me and my circle of friends at
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Meet new people, share photos, create or attend events, post free classifieds, send free e-cards, listen music, read blogs, upload videos, be part of a club, chat rooms, forum and much more!

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3/03/2007

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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3/05/2007

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Watiti.com
Join me and my circle of friends at http://www.watiti.com, an online social networking community that connects people from all over the world.

Meet new people, share photos, create or attend events, post free classifieds, send free e-cards, listen music, read blogs, upload videos, be part of a club, chat rooms, forum and much more!

See you around! Bring all your friends too!

Watiti.com

3/05/2007

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

photo ads

3/05/2007

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.adquity.com

Classifieds for our community. Buy, sell, trade, date, events... post anything. Adquity Classifieds.

http://www.adquity.com

3/05/2007

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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3/05/2007

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Watiti.com
Join me and my circle of friends at http://www.watiti.com,
an online social networking community that connects
people from all over the world.

Meet new people, share photos, create or attend
events, post free classifieds, send free e-cards,
listen music, read blogs, upload videos, be part of a
club, chat rooms, forum and much more!

See you around! Bring all your friends too!

Watiti.com

3/09/2007

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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3/09/2007

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.adquity.com

Classifieds for our community. Buy, sell, trade, date, events... post anything. Adquity Classifieds.

http://www.adquity.com

3/18/2007

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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3/18/2007

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Watiti.com
Join me and my circle of friends at http://www.watiti.com, an online social networking community that connects people from all over the world.

Meet new people, share photos, create or attend events, post free classifieds, send free e-cards, listen music, read blogs, upload videos, be part of a club, chat rooms, forum and much more!

See you around! Bring all your friends too!

Watiti.com Clubs

3/19/2007

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.watiti.com

Join me and my circle of friends at http://www.watiti.com,
an online social networking community that connects
people from all over the world.

Meet new people, share photos, create or attend
events, post free classifieds, send free e-cards,
listen music, read blogs, upload videos, be part of a
club, chat rooms, forum and much more!

See you around! Bring all your friends too!

http://www.watiti.com

3/21/2007

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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3/22/2007

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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3/28/2007

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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4/11/2007

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are one of the leading mobile phone distributors.We are Legitimate registered
Company under licensed number(RC43215).We ship via FedEx or DHL, and your
ordered items will get to your door step within 48 hrs(Two Working Day).We sell
all kinds of mobile phones such as Nokia, samsung, motorola, Sony Ericsson,
Nextel, Juicy Sidekick
II, PDAs phones,eg Qtek900 I-mate Jasjar, o2 xda exec, Dopod 900 and many
more. and we also have all
the model of Apple ipod, Xbox 360, Sony PSP and Sony PS3.
For further enquiry forward your mail to :VODAFONEPLACE@hotmail.com We look
forward in serving you better.
For :CELL TELECOMS LTD.
JANE moore(e-marketers)
VODAFONE VPA COMPACT III (v1605): $190 US
SPRINT PPC-6700 SMART DEVICE POCKET PC CELL PHONE: $170 US
HP 6515 Cell Phone/PDA: $140 US
HP iPAQ hw6915/6915: $160 US
Orange SPV M3100 PDA: $200 US
GIGABYTE G-SMART i 128 POCKET PC PHONE WITH TV: $210 US
LG KG800 CHOCOLATE PHONE: $130 US
02 XDA Mini S Mobile Phone: $150 US
QTEK 9100: $110 US
Imate K-jam PDA: $130 US
PDA phone dopod 838 pro hermes wizard q-tek O2 mda: $240 US
Treo 650: $250 US
Sprint Palm Treo 700wx: $220 US
E-TEN M600+ Pocket PC Phone WiFi 2MP Camera: $180 US
T-Mobile Sidekick III 3 Camera Cell Phone: $170 US
Juicy SIDEKICK I...........$100USD
SIDEKICK II..........$120
SIDEKICK II MISTER CARTOON...... $140
JUICY COUTURE SIDEKICK II .....$130
SIDEKICK 3..........$220
02 Phones
o2 xDA Exec ........ $250
02 XDA Atom ........ $220
02 XDA NEO ........ $220
02 XDA mini S ....... $240
02 XDA II mini ...... $180
02 XDA IIi ......... $150
02 XDA IIs ......... $160
O2 X2i ......... $120
02 X4 ......... $130
02 X3 ......... $120
02 x7 ......... $140
SAMSUNG D600 ......140$
SAMSUNG P860 ......145$
SAMSUNG P850 ......145$
SAMSUNG E730 ......145$
SAMSUNG D510 ......140$
SAMSUNG Z700 ......130$
SAMSUNG D720 ......140$
SAMSUNG Z130 ......110$
SAMSUNG Z500 ......120$
SAMSUNG Z300 ......110$
SAMSUNG E350 ......140$
SAMSUNG E720 ......135$
SAMSUNG B100 ......140$
SAMSUNG X640 ......140$
SAMSUNG X480 ......135$
SAMSUNG X460 ......135$
SAMSUNG D500 ......140$
SAMSUNG P730 ......140$
SAMSUNG P710 ......120$
SAMSUNG D900........200$
Mitac MIO 8930......$280usd
Motorola razor v3.........$100usd
Motorola razor v3 pink edition....$120usd
Motorola v3X...................$150usd
Motorola Q................$180
Motorola MPX300.,...$150usd
Motorola V3i D&G: $160 US
Motorola V6: $140 US
Motorola K1 KRZR: $130 US
Motorola IRIDIUM 9505A SATELLITE PHONE: $400 US
Nextel Sprint Motorola ic502 Hybrid: $140 US
Motorola A1200 PDA: $140 US
Motorola I580: $100 US
Nextel i930.........$130usd
Nextel i870.........$120usd
Nextel i860.........$100usd
Nextel i90c.........$75USD
Nextel i95cl........$90USD
Sony Ericsson p990.....$140usd
Sony Ericsson p910i....$125usd
Sony Ericsson w900i....$140usd
Sony Ericsson K750i....$130usd
Sony Ericsson k800i....$170usd
Sony Ericsson k700i....$120usd
Sony Ericsson W800i....$145usd
Sony Ericsson W900 ....$190usd
sony Ericsson w600i....$130usd
Sony Ericsson d750i....$150usd
Sony Ericsson z1010....$180usd
Sony Ericsson W850i: $110 US
Sony Ericsson W810i: $120 US
Sony Ericsson W950i: $190 US
Sony Ericsson W900i: $140 US
Sony Ericsson K800i: $140 US
Sony Ericsson Z520i: $190 US
Sony Ericsson P990i: $200 US
Qtek
Qtek 8500 ....... $130
Qtek S200 ....... $180
Qtek 9000 ....... $250
Qtek 8310 ....... $200
Qtek 8300 ....... $185
Qtek 9100 ....... $270
Qtek 8100 ....... $150
Qtek S110 ....... $175
Qtek S100 ....... $190
Qtek 9090 ....... $200
Qtek 8020 ....... $190
Qtek 8010 ....... $140
Qtek 2020i ...... $220
Qtek 2020 ....... $200
Qtek 1010 ....... $140
LG KG800(CHOCOLATE)........$160USD
I-MATE PHONES
I-MATE Smartflip ....... $140
I-MATE JAMin ......... $240
I-MATE JASJAR ........ $250
I-MATE K-JAM ......... $180
I-MATE SP5 ......... $150
I-MATE SP5m ......... $155
I-MATE SP4m ......... $120
I-MATE JAM Black ........ $150
I-MATE JAM ......... $160
I-MATE PDA2 ......... $190
I-MATE PDA2k ......... $168
I-MATE SP3i ......... $130
I-MATE SP3 ......... $135
I-MATE Pocket PC ......... $140
I-MATE Smartphone2 ........ $110
I-MATE Smartphone ........ $115
Treo 700...............$200usd
Treo 600...............$150usd
Treo 650...............$160usd
NOKIA VERTU.......$650USD
Nokia 8800 Sirocco Edition: $290 US
Nokia 8800 GOLD: $340 US
Nokia 8800: $170 US
Nokia N73: $130 US
Nokia N72: $120 US
Nokia N80: $140 US
Nokia N93: $180 US
Nokia N95: $160 US
NOKIA E61: $130 US
Nokia E60: $120 US
Nokia 7380: $160 US
Nokia 8801: $130 US
Nokia 9300: $130 US
Nokia 3250: $150 US
Nokia 6126: $140 US
Nokia N90 $200
Nokia N91 220$
Nokia 6060 150$
Nokia 6111 170$
Nokia 6270 170$
Nokia 6270 190$
Nokia 6280 180$
Nokia Vertu 250$
Nokia 5140i 140$
Nokia 6230i 140$
Nokia 6021 140$
Nokia 6030 140$
Nokia 6680 140$
Nokia 6681 120$
Nokia 6101 110$
Nokia 6822 110$
Nokia 7710 110$
Nokia 6170 140$
Nokia 6260 140$
Nokia 3510i 90$
Nokia 6630 120$
Nokia 9300 110$
Nokia 7260 120$
Nokia 7270 110$
Nokia 7280 120$
Nokia 6670 110$
Nokia 6020 120$
Nokia 3220 65$
Nokia N-GAGE QD 70$
Nokia 7610 120$
Nokia 9500 145$
Nokia 5140 85$
Nokia 6610i 120$
Nokia 7200 133$
Nokia 6230 145$
Nokia 6820 120$
Nokia 7600 105$
Nokia 6600 120$
Nokia 6800 105$
Nokia 6220 120$
Nokia 6620 120$
Nokia 7250i 65$
Nokia 8910i 120$
Nokia 6100 95$
Nokia N70 AT jUST....220USD
NOKIA 9500 AT JUST....$200USD
Nokia 8800.....$180USD
NOKIA 6260 AT JUST ...$180USD
NOKIA 6600 AT JUST ..$1400
NEXTEL I860 AT JUST ...$110usd
NEXTEL I930 AT JUST.....$130
Nokia N71.......$155USD
Nokia 8800......$150USD
Nokia 7710.......$145USD
Nokia 8801..........$190USD
Nokia 7610.......$120usd
Nokia 9300......$145USD
Nokia 9500......$170USD
Nokia 6600......$100
20GB iPod 20GB iPod .............45USD
Apple 4 GB iPod Mini Pink M9435LL/A ......40 USD
Apple 40 GB iPod photo....................40 USD
Apple 4 GB iPod Mini Silver M9160LL/A ....40 USD
Apple 60 GB iPod Photo M9830LL/A..........60 USD
Apple 60 GB iPod photo ...................55 USD
Apple 30 GB iPod Photo M9829LL/A..........50 USD
Apple 512 MB iPod Shuffle MP3 Player......40 USD
Apple 4 GB iPod Mini Blue M9436LL/A.......45 USD
Apple 2 GB iPod Nano......................50 USD
Apple 4 GB iPod Nano......................60 USD
Apple 30 GB iPod Vidoe...................110 USD
Apple 60 GB iPod Vidoe...................150 USD
play station 1......... $120
play station 2 ....$130
play station 3.....$150
Sony PSP Limited Edition: $140 US
Sony PSP Entertainment Pack: $150 US
Sony PSP Value Pack: $120 US
Sony PSP Bundle: $130 US
xbox 360.......$200
this games are brand new sealed in black company Box.
Send your enquiry to:vodafone_world@inbox.lv

4/25/2007

 

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