Mouse rant blog vent mouse.

Wednesday, September 15, 2004

Natural and unnatural

When someone starts preaching to me what's natural and what isn't I clutch my wallet and my handy copy of the Constitution, because the argument that's following is that when things happen in nature but outside of what the speakers deems "natural", then society and law should force the unnatural things into their natural behavior.

Yes, I know. It gives me a headache, too.

Recent posts/discussions on Alas, a Blog and Echidne of the Snakes got me to thinking back on the ludicrious nature of this argument. A troll on Alas is trotting out the usual arguments that homosexuals can't marry, since homosexuals aren't natural, and the evidence for this is they don't fit into socially constructed gender roles. Of course, he can't admit that those gender roles are social constructs, so he says that they are nature. We know men and women are completely different naturally, because only one wears white on the wedding day.

I meet plenty of men who believe this, because, as Echidne points out, the "natural" sex roles just so happen to be the ones where women take care of men and do all the emotional work in relationships. If someone coughed up a theory that men naturally had an urge to wait on women and give them daily back rubs, I too would be inclined to believe it. I may even be inclined to tell my boyfriend that all men give women daily backrubs and when he pointed out that he is not "all" men, I could be inclined to call him unnatural. Luckily for him, no one is publishing books that flatteringly tell me that my sex entitles me to more than the chance to get some compliments and a couple of dinners early on in a relationship.

Whenever I get into an argument with a man who tells me that men and women are naturally different, and I am lying to myself when I don't have that god-given urge to vaccum, it isn't too long before this man will whip out his wife as an example of how all women are _____. The idea, of course, is that as an unmarried woman, I can't know how men and women are so different. The troll at Alas finally uncorks this one.

The point is that men and women are physically, emotionally, and psychologically different. Humans are either male or female. We can't legislate away gender differences. They exist. Marriage serves to bridge that gap. That's what makes the marital relationship special and unique. Men are from Mars, and Women are from Venus. Not every man has the male gender stereotypes, nor every woman the female ones. But there is truth in my, feeble, according to you, attempt at humor. Any one who has been married for a number of years can attest to that. Is there anyone (hetero) out there beside me who is married?

When he says that we are trying to "legislate gender differences", by the way, he is arguing for a ban on gay marriage because it doesn't fit his theory of gender difference. So, apparently since we cannot legislate away gender difference, we are required to use the law to enforce gender difference. Anyway, I felt sorry for this man's wife. Sure, he might have recognized her as an individual when dating her, someone that he liked better than most of the women he met in his day-to-day life. But now that they are married, her personality is a stand-in for All Women. His wife is grumpy when she has PMS, therefore All Women are grumpy when they have PMS. Or something like that. (Yes, I am aware that he says that not all men or all women do this or that, but since he was earlier making fun of anyone who stepped out of their ascribed gender roles, his feelings about variety were made perfectly clear.)

But there is a bit of nuance in the men are from Mars, women from Venus way of thinking. The nuance is that they admit that if men and women are so drastically different there is good reason to believe that they would not enjoy each other's company. So marriage exists to force them to get along and that's why there's so much social pressure to marry. Once again, pity swells in my heart. How must it feel to be married to someone you otherwise admit is so foreign that he/she wouldn't even be in your life if not forced by marriage?

Before I drop this, I have one more quote that caused me to laugh from Echidne's comments section.

Not ten minutes ago I had an aquaintance in my room who took a look around and said "women are supposed to be clean."

A better example of the sex difference arguments would be hard to find--women are naturally this, and if they aren't this, then they can be forced by being called unnatural.

29 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

This troll has obviously never seen "Paris is Burning."

9/15/2004

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes. We had laws forcing women to submit to male authority because they're naturally inclined that way.

We also have laws against theft because people are naturally inclined to be honest, and laws against murder because people are naturally respectful of human life.

-Linnet

9/15/2004

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But even if men and women are "naturally different" and fit natural gender roles, I don't understand his objection. If gay men, for example, are the result of actual physiological differences (versus simply choice) then they are "naturally different" from your "natural man." (I am choking on all of this as I write, just so you know). Then it makes more sense to fit homosexuals into the gender roles we acknowledge: i.e. "masculine and feminine" rather than "male and female." It would in fact be LESS natural for a gay male to marry a straight female than a more-feminine gay male to marry a more-masculine gay male. Seems to me he is arguing against himself, using this defense that humans have natural gender roles.From what I've seen, they way people like this man free themselves of this contradiction is to pathologize homosexuality. Yes, they may say, it's "natural", but still "aberrant" and should therefore be treated as a sickness.

--Linnaeus

9/15/2004

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I no longer know what is "natural", nor do I much care. I have had three friends/acquaintances/colleagues, all brilliant and accomplished in their fields (doctoral-level education and employment), all good kind people, who have transitioned to the other gender. Deep down I don't really "get it", can't imagine my way inside their heads - but I don't have to, it's their lives, all I owe them is the same respect and affection as before.

NancyP

9/15/2004

 
Blogger Haute Corbeille said...

It's funny, because in fact it was getting married that, for me, eroded the last vestiges of my belief in "natural" gender roles away. If you were to abstractly map patterns of behavior alone in the day-to-day lives of my wife and myself over time, you wouldn't see a difference at all. Good Lord...am I...am I...unmanly????

9/16/2004

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Greetings Amanda it's rather cold here today, but summer is comming to our part of the world soon. I was looking for the latest most up to date information on dating book and I landed on your page. Although Natural and unnatural is not an exact match I can see why I ended up here while looking for dating book Great stuff thanks for the read.....now where did I put that surf board !

10/30/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I skim a lot of blogs, and so far yours is in the Top 3 of my list of favorites. I'm going to dive in and try my hand at it, so wish me luck.

I've got a site you might be interested in (mine is about mens sex reviews ) I know, it sounds strange, but it's like anything, once you learn more about it, it's pretty cool. It's mostly about mens sex reviews related articles and subjects.

11/08/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi,

I found your blog about Natural and unnatural. If you have time, check out my free personals web site. It is nothing special but you may still find something of value there.

11/13/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was out searching for online dating related information, when I landed on your page. Amanda you have some good stuff there. While Natural and unnatural wasn't exactly what I was looking for I enjoyed the read Thanks. So I'll continue on looking for online dating, see you again some time.

11/14/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, you have a great blog here! I'm definitely going to bookmark you!

I have a attitude teesTee site called Holden Tees. We're a small company and we sell shirts and stuff.

Come and check it out if you get time

-Holden Tees

11/15/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Greetings from Down Under, no not Australia, NZ the real downunder! Hi Amanda I was surfing blogs (as you do) looking for internet dating tips information when I came across your site. While Natural and unnatural wasn't an exact match I enjoyed reading your posts. Thanks for the read, I'll visit again some time. take care.

11/17/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey you should come to this site about adult free personals

Its here click on adult free personals

11/22/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi There Amanda how you going? I was sufing blogs for information on internet dating and I came across yours. while Natural and unnatural wasn't exactly what I was looking for, It was most interesting. I can see why I found your page when I was looking for internet dating stuff. Thanks for the read!

11/29/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi There Amanda how you going? I was sufing blogs for information on dating guide and I came across yours. while Natural and unnatural wasn't exactly what I was looking for, It was most interesting. I can see why I found your page when I was looking for dating guide stuff. Thanks for the read!

12/12/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I must tell I liked your blog very much. By the way, there is a nice site where you can rate photos of singles in your area and find top totally free personals, take a look if you're interested.

1/21/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

how can i start a blog

1/21/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello,

I was out blogging and stopped here! I hope marvelous blog can give me some good understanding about exactly what I am in search of...

I am going to read your posts and archives in a matter of seconds...

Thanks,
marvelous blog

1/27/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

where can i get more info?

2/01/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Greetings from Down Under, no not Australia, NZ the real down under! Hi I was surfing Blogs (as you do) looking for best online dating service information when I came across your site. While wasn't an exact match, I was after more best online dating service, I enjoyed the reading your posts. I'll visit again sometime.

2/01/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dumb luck! Sometimes it takes another perspective, you know what I mean. I could not find one single site about Usb 2.0 host and then my sweetheart tries and she finds the darn site I have been looking for in one search. When I've been looking for this stuff ALL DAY. Anyways, relief is on the way. If you like stuff about this topic, then you will absolutely love this site I uncovered. Enjoy!Usb 2.0 host

2/05/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Still years after watching that movie, The Matrix, I still get chills up and down my spine about how that movie dealt with most everyone being incubated by robots. Almost as creepy as when I was research The Matrix movie and came across this one listing of a site that had nothing to do with my search and it was all about Free web host unlimited bandwidth. Weird I tell ya.
Free web host unlimited bandwidth

2/06/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello,

I found this blog very interesting - good one!

Regards,
start online business

3/12/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When you stand on the victory stand, you must be able to ask xxx phone sex yourself: xxx phone sex

3/15/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi blogger:)

Your blog is great and extraordinary useful. I am not exagarating, I really found it useful!

Regards,
make money fast

3/17/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Experience Breast Enhancement in 5 Minutes Or Your Money Back!

2/08/2007

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

dating personals photo

2/09/2007

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

dating personals photo

2/13/2007

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

gay adult

2/17/2007

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

free adult chat rooms

3/06/2007

 

Post a Comment

Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]

<< Home