Mouse rant blog vent mouse.

Wednesday, March 02, 2005

Helping rapists is just part of the job, ma'am

The infamous Rep. Frank Corte of San Antonio has excreted another one of his brillant bills designed to spread pain and chaos through our great state, and The Daily Texan has got the story. The bill is one of those bills to give pharmacists the right to refuse to give women their prescribed contraceptions. I find it ill-advised in a state where everyone is armed to the teeth for a pharmacist to smugly tell a woman who's been sitting for god knows how long in traffic to get her birth control pills that he's not going to help her escape her feminine duty to breed, breed, breed. Hopefully, the logical conclusion to that frustration will occur sooner rather than later.

Frustration sucks but what sucks even worse is that this bill is designed not only to encourage two-bit misogynist bullies to become pharmacists and knock women up by proxy that would never actually touch them, but it is also a way for your friendly neighborhood health worker to come to the aid of your rapist instead of you if you've been victimized. Yes, friends, under this bill, tyrannical Christian health care providers can stare a recently raped woman in the eye and refuse to help her not become pregnant by her attacker. Screw emergency contraception--if you didn't want a baby, why you go and get raped? Why let the rapist get all the pleasure out of hurting the victim? Everyone can join the fun!

Just when I thought things couldn't get meaner, the article turns to the local Texas Alliance for Life to get their opinion on what scum-sucking monsters they are to want to help rapists finish the job. Their opinion? Well, rape can't get you pregnant, they say.

Arguing that a raped woman has been extremely traumatized, he concluded: "A woman has gone through a trauma; for these reasons her body may not be fertile."

That is easily the most fucked-up version of "she was asking for it" I have ever heard. After all, if rape can't get you pregnant, it follows that if you are pregnant you must have consented. Well, I suppose it makes sense that if you believe pregnancy is god's punishment for naughty, naughty girls to disbelieve that he would be handing that particular punishment out to the innocent. However, it does make me wonder if the members of this group also think that god's other punishment for people who have The Sex, sexually transmitted diseases, also cannot pass from a rapist to the victim.

434 Comments:

Blogger Elinor said...

Apparently in the early modern period it was widely believed that a woman had to have an orgasm in order to conceive.

On the one hand that makes me wonder about early modern marital sex; on the other it meant that rape victims who got pregnant were disbelieved and very cruelly treated.

This almost seems like a vestige of that belief.

3/02/2005

 
Blogger Sally said...

Arguing that a raped woman has been extremely traumatized, he concluded: "A woman has gone through a trauma; for these reasons her body may not be fertile."Ick. This was widely believed in like the 17th and 18th centuries, but I wasn't aware that it was still floating around.

3/02/2005

 
Blogger Toy Soldier said...

Did we read the same article? How is granting pharmacists the right not to prescribe a drug if they don’t want to a violation of women’s right? And how does that translate into aiding rapists? Are the pharmacists going to destroy the DNA evidence? Are they going to turn away rape victims? Are they going to prevent her from having an abortion?

So if I understand you correctly, it’s fine to force someone to do something against their will, so long as the person isn’t a rape victim?

3/02/2005

 
Blogger Pseudo-Adrienne said...

Amanda, seriously, how do you stand living in Texas? New Mexico is right next door girl! What are you waiting for?! Then again, I wonder why oh why, am I still living in Indiana? Who has the same fucked up beliefs as Texas about sex, rape victims, and "god's plan concerning women's bodies."

Pharmacists are supposed to dispense with medication, not force their religious views on others. That's what evangelicals are for.

"Arguing that a raped woman has been extremely traumatized, he concluded: "A woman has gone through a trauma; for these reasons her body may not be fertile."

Well those people obviously didn't take biology or health class (real health and biology classes anyway). They clearly don't know jack-shit about women's bodies and fertility, though they are fully and enthusiastically well aware of women's ability to become breeding chattel.

3/02/2005

 
Anonymous Nick F said...

Damn that's fucked up. That's fractally fucked up.

...Does this bullshit actually pass around there?

3/03/2005

 
Blogger Jack said...

Just.....stunned.

3/03/2005

 
Blogger Elinor said...

Are the pharmacists going to destroy the DNA evidence? Are they going to turn away rape victims? Are they going to prevent her from having an abortion?Wait, so you think it's okay for a woman to have to go through invasive surgery because the only pharmacist in town didn't feel it was "right" to give her the pill? Good grief.

Why is "don't take a job you're not prepared to do" such a strange concept all of a sudden?

3/03/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Toy soldier:

Health care is, to a large extent, a public accomodation. Between law and ethics, most health care providers are barred from refusing care.

EMT's and Emergency rooms patch up gang members, battlefield medics treat captured enemy soldiers. Pharmacists ought to have to treat every medical condition that comes before them, even if they object to the condition or the treatment.

If the FDA approves it, and either a doctor prescribes it or it's okayed for OTC sales, pharmacists should have a legal obligation to provide it. That's my public policy position.

Thomas

3/03/2005

 
Blogger Charlie said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

3/03/2005

 
Blogger Charlie said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

3/03/2005

 
Blogger Charlie said...

"Sorry Venkman ... I'm terrified beyond capacity for rational thought."That is how this topic generally and this story specifically make me feel. It is the ultimate Anti-Tolerance. I love it when the response is that we should all just chill out because if your pharmacist won't fill your prescription, you can easily go get the perscription filled somewhere else.

Oh, except that won't work if you live in a small town with only pharmacist, will it? It also won't work if the pharmacist refuses to transfer the prescription. What would you say to that rape victim?

And then there's the fact that "birth control" has so many other medical uses besides birth control. By refusing to fill the prescription, the pharmicist is taking on the role of doctor. But pharmacists aren't trained as doctors, they are trained in pharmacology.

Religious morals trumping medicine. What's next? Why not let Muslim doctors refuse to treat STDs on the grounds that they are a punishment from Allah? And certainly nobody with HIV deserves treatment, since it is obviously a punishment from God for being gay.

Adrienne, comments to this post would indicate that New Mexico has already passed a similar law. Snarkiness aside, this problem is more wide spread than a lot of people realize.

Sorry for the long comment. You really got my dander up, Amanda.

3/03/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

No worries, Charlie. You should see some of the woman-hating going on in the comments to this post at Pandagon. The suggestion that a rape victim who is in the hospital for treatment can take her business elsewhere if she wants EC is particularly ignorant. How dumb does someone have to be to think you can just walk out of an emergency room, especially if you've been beaten or the police are there and want to collect evidence?

3/03/2005

 
Blogger Toy Soldier said...

Elinor-

“Wait, so you think it's okay for a woman to have to go through invasive surgery because the only pharmacist in town didn't feel it was "right" to give her the pill? Good grief.”

Maybe you should read what I wrote instead of jumping to such a ridiculous conclusion. So, you think it’s fine to force a guard who doesn’t agree with the death penalty to murder someone simply because it’s his job? Hmm…

Thomas-

Actually, that isn’t entirely true. In one instance, a boy was left to bleed to death right on the drive way in front if the ER. Doctors saw him. Nurses saw him. But their policy was that the person either had to be brought in or come in on his own volition. And as far as treatment goes, the fact of the matter is hospitals CAN turn away patients, based on their inability to pay, based on their insurance, or based on the doctors’ orders.

What someone ought to do and what they have a right to decide to do are two different things. Morality is a totality different issue. But is it right to force someone to do something he or she doesn’t agree with?

Amanda-

“The suggestion that a rape victim who is in the hospital for treatment can take her business elsewhere if she wants EC is particularly ignorant.”

How is that ignorant? Sure, I agree it’s stupid, just like it’s stupid to turn away male victims at rape centers. But, there are many doctors who refuse to perform procedures and operations for a variety of reasons, and the patient has to take their business elsewhere.

“How dumb does someone have to be to think you can just walk out of an emergency room, especially if you've been beaten or the police are there and want to collect evidence?”

How familiar are you with ER procedures? If the victim is not a minor, not under arrest, and is capable of holding a pen, the person can check themselves out, whether the doctors want them to or not. There is no law stating that beaten and bruised people can’t leave. There are regulations that state that the EMTs should try to keep the person there. But, you can technically check out whenever you want.

3/03/2005

 
Blogger Charlie said...

"If the victim is not a minor, not under arrest, and is capable of holding a pen, the person can check themselves out, whether the doctors want them to or not. There is no law stating that beaten and bruised people can’t leave. There are regulations that state that the EMTs should try to keep the person there. "

I love it! So it is ok to allow deny the rape victim access to emergency contraception as long as she is a minor. What a beautiful vision of society.

Bringing up the fact that EMTs are trained to coerce people to stay only undermines your point. A rape victim who has been hospitalized has undergone a tramatic experience both physically and emotionally. Chances are good that she isn't thinking clearly in the 24-60 hour window she has to find an alternative provider of EC.

3/03/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

It's ignorant. You think that a person who is beaten and possibly immobile can just up and walk out to an ER that would rather have her business. Health care ain't BK versus McDonald's.

3/03/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Toy Soldier: I said healthcare was "to a large extent" mandatory. There are loopholes and exceptions. There are also doctors who give substandard care to people they don't like.

What I advocate as a matter of public policy is that healthcare providers not be permitted to withhold care on the basis of their personal moral beliefs, including religious ones.

Yes, I am perfectly comfortable with forcing religious extremists out of healthcare because of those rules. I could intellectualize this stance, but that would be bullshit. It's actually a matter of pure preference: I value a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy more than I value the feelings of evangelicals.

Thomas

3/03/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Of course a rape survivor _may_ leave a hospital. No one is suggesting that she must stay at a hospital that refuses to provide EC. The point here is that it is profoundly abusive to force her to find an alternative. Aside from the trauma and stress that might prevent her from thinking about EC or dealing with the extra trouble of locating and travelling to a prescribing hospital in the area (assuming there is one), she may be seriously physically injured by the rape. She may also need to remain at that hospital to have the best chance of collecting physical evidence against her rapist; physical evidence is as time-sensitive as EC. She also may be restricted by her health insurance policy--or by a lack of insurance--as to which hospital she can check into.

And as far as your analogy...if someone applied for and took a job as a prison guard, and then decided that they couldn't guard nonviolent offenders because they didn't believe that they should be imprisoned, would it be unjust to discharge them?

3/03/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pharmacists should be required to fill all prescriptions regardless of their personal beliefs.

By taking a job, you're agreeing to perform the duties involved in that job. Doctors are the ones who decide whether or not to prescribe medication; pharmacists are only expected to fill those prescriptions. They may NOT override the doctors' decisions; they can't sell you drugs for which you don't have a prescription, and they shouldn't be able to refuse to sell you drugs for which you do have one.

And if anyone has personal beliefs that prevent her from performing her job--assuming her responsibilites are reasonable, and "fill this prescription" is pretty damn reasonable (while "expound upon the virtues of birth control" probably isn't)--she shouldn't take the job to begin with.

No one would argue that a bookstore employee should be able to say, "Ooh, sorry, I can't sell you the new Left Behind book [or, for that matter, the Bible] because I don't believe in God." Or that a McDonalds' employee should be able to tell customers, "Well, I'm a vegetarian, so you'll have to go somewhere else to buy a hamburger." And ditto with a pharmacist who says, "I've heard that if you take too many antibiotics, you develop an immunity to them--so no, you can't have any penicillin."

I just don't understand how anyone can not get this. If you're a pharmacist, you fill prescriptions. Period. You don't have to like it, but it's your job.

Hestia

3/03/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pharmacists should be required to fill all prescriptions regardless of their personal beliefs.

By taking a job, you're agreeing to perform the duties involved in that job. Doctors are the ones who decide whether or not to prescribe medication; pharmacists are only expected to fill those prescriptions. They may NOT override the doctors' decisions; they can't sell you drugs for which you don't have a prescription, and they shouldn't be able to refuse to sell you drugs for which you do have one.

And if anyone has personal beliefs that prevent her from performing her job--assuming her responsibilites are reasonable, and "fill this prescription" is pretty damn reasonable (while "expound upon the virtues of birth control" probably isn't)--she shouldn't take the job to begin with.

No one would argue that a bookstore employee should be able to say, "Ooh, sorry, I can't sell you the new Left Behind book [or, for that matter, the Bible] because I don't believe in God." Or that a McDonalds' employee should be able to tell customers, "Well, I'm a vegetarian, so you'll have to go somewhere else to buy a hamburger." And ditto with a pharmacist who says, "I've heard that if you take too many antibiotics, you develop an immunity to them--so no, you can't have any penicillin."

I just don't understand how anyone can not get this. If you're a pharmacist, you fill prescriptions. Period. You don't have to like it, but it's your job.

Hestia

3/03/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Assuming this piece of idiocy goes through, could we at least get a rider compelling these jerf-offs to put up some signage indicating their disinclinations? That way, a woman who wants contraceptives doesn't have to waste her precious time trying to buy them--or anything else, ever--from their establishments.

Most of the Texas women I know seem fully capable of dissuading their friends, families and co-workers from ever shopping there either.

Molly, NYC

3/03/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry--make that "jerk-offs."

--Molly

3/03/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pharmacists should be required to fill all prescriptions regardless of their personal beliefs.

By taking a job, you're agreeing to perform the duties involved in that job. Doctors are the ones who decide whether or not to prescribe medication; pharmacists are only expected to fill those prescriptions. They may NOT override the doctors' decisions; they can't sell you drugs for which you don't have a prescription, and they shouldn't be able to refuse to sell you drugs for which you do have one.

And if anyone has personal beliefs that prevent her from performing her job--assuming her responsibilites are reasonable, and "fill this prescription" is pretty damn reasonable (while "expound upon the virtues of birth control" probably isn't)--she shouldn't take the job to begin with.

No one would argue that a bookstore employee should be able to say, "Ooh, sorry, I can't sell you the new Left Behind book [or, for that matter, the Bible] because I don't believe in God." Or that a McDonalds' employee should be able to tell customers, "Well, I'm a vegetarian, so you'll have to go somewhere else to buy a hamburger." And ditto with a pharmacist who says, "I've heard that if you take too many antibiotics, you develop an immunity to them--so no, you can't have any penicillin."

I just don't understand how anyone can not get this. If you're a pharmacist, you fill prescriptions. Period. You don't have to like it, but it's your job.

Hestia

3/03/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pharmacists should be required to fill all prescriptions regardless of their personal beliefs.

By taking a job, you're agreeing to perform the duties involved in that job. Doctors are the ones who decide whether or not to prescribe medication; pharmacists are only expected to fill those prescriptions. They may NOT override the doctors' decisions; they can't sell you drugs for which you don't have a prescription, and they shouldn't be able to refuse to sell you drugs for which you do have one.

And if anyone has personal beliefs that prevent her from performing her job--assuming her responsibilites are reasonable, and "fill this prescription" is pretty damn reasonable (while "expound upon the virtues of birth control" probably isn't)--she shouldn't take the job to begin with.

No one would argue that a bookstore employee should be able to say, "Ooh, sorry, I can't sell you the new Left Behind book [or, for that matter, the Bible] because I don't believe in God." Or that a McDonalds' employee should be able to tell customers, "Well, I'm a vegetarian, so you'll have to go somewhere else to buy a hamburger." And ditto with a pharmacist who says, "I've heard that if you take too many antibiotics, you develop an immunity to them--so no, you can't have any penicillin."

I just don't understand how anyone can not get this. If you're a pharmacist, you fill prescriptions. Period. You don't have to like it, but it's your job.

Hestia

3/03/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pharmacists should be required to fill all prescriptions regardless of their personal beliefs.

By taking a job, you're agreeing to perform the duties involved in that job. Doctors are the ones who decide whether or not to prescribe medication; pharmacists are only expected to fill those prescriptions. They may NOT override the doctors' decisions; they can't sell you drugs for which you don't have a prescription, and they shouldn't be able to refuse to sell you drugs for which you do have one.

And if anyone has personal beliefs that prevent her from performing her job--assuming her responsibilites are reasonable, and "fill this prescription" is pretty damn reasonable (while "expound upon the virtues of birth control" probably isn't)--she shouldn't take the job to begin with.

No one would argue that a bookstore employee should be able to say, "Ooh, sorry, I can't sell you the new Left Behind book [or, for that matter, the Bible] because I don't believe in God." Or that a McDonalds' employee should be able to tell customers, "Well, I'm a vegetarian, so you'll have to go somewhere else to buy a hamburger." And ditto with a pharmacist who says, "I've heard that if you take too many antibiotics, you develop an immunity to them--so no, you can't have any penicillin."

I just don't understand how anyone can not get this. If you're a pharmacist, you fill prescriptions. Period. You don't have to like it, but it's your job.

Hestia

3/03/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pressure the chains.

Get the national chains to promise that, if a pharmacist will not fill an EC prescription, they'll have someone available or on call who will.

Also, advanced notification of the objectors is great -- it'll draw protests.

Thomas

3/03/2005

 
Blogger Anne said...

Thomas, apparently Target is strongly in favor of customers receiving proper medication, as is CVS and I think Eckerd as well. Walgreens was more iffy.

3/03/2005

 
Blogger Elinor said...

"Maybe you should read what I wrote instead of jumping to such a ridiculous conclusion."

I don't see how it's ridiculous. You said pharmacists shouldn't have to prescribe a drug they don't want to prescribe (i.e. the pill, the morning-after pill, etc.) and then suggested that a woman who gets pregnant from rape can have an abortion anyway and the pharmacist can't stop her. Therefore it appears to me that you are arguing that it's acceptable for a pharmacist to refuse to give a woman the morning-after pill even if this means she must have surgery she would not have to have if her prescription had been filled.

"So, you think it’s fine to force a guard who doesn’t agree with the death penalty to murder someone simply because it’s his job?"

You're making it sound as if people just randomly wake up one morning and find out they've become pharmacists or prison guards. People choose to enter these occupations; they know what's involved, or ought to.

3/04/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Obligatory apology for multiple comments. This Blogger technology is great, but damn, I can't wait until it's perfect...

Hestia

3/04/2005

 
Blogger Sally said...

Wow. Apparently Walgreens allows pharmacists to opt out of filling prescriptions to which they have moral objections. I get all my prescriptions filled at Walgreens, and they're not the only pharmacy in my neighborhood. I'm going to write them a letter explaining that I will take my business to a pharmacy that realizes that my right to medical care is more important than their employees' right to impose their religious beliefs on me.

3/04/2005

 
Blogger Tuli said...

"In a state where everyone is armed to the teeth." Exactly! And it will happen.

Amanda you are so great (Note that I used the word, "so." Clearly an indication that the blogger is female).

Tuli

3/05/2005

 
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Wow Mans, you really got 'em going on this one.

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11/07/2005

 
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11/09/2005

 
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11/11/2005

 
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11/12/2005

 

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