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Thursday, January 13, 2005

Egads, not that again

The porn thing I'm nonplussed about. But this kind of thing makes me bananas. At Steve Gilliard's blog, they are talking about whether or not men's cheating is preordained or not. Steve is leaning heavily towards "yes", and some commenters are certain of it, like this one who puts it bluntly:

Listen to Steve. All men, if given an opportunity to get away with it, will cheat on their wives, girlfriends, etc.

This attitude is pretty self-assured. I would point out that if it actually gets roundly believed by women that they have to babysit their men 24/7 in order to prevent cheating, women will give up on men entirely, as a general rule.

But I don't believe men need babysitters. "All men do it," is the refrain of those who do it and want to be justified in their behavior. Or maybe they haven't done it yet, but they want an out if they ever do. Of course, since a majority of men have or will cheat at some point in their life, this is a common enough refrain. But a majority of women have or will cheat at some point in their lives, and we don't hear women flippantly telling men that they just need to get over it. In part, that's because we have a genuine fear of having potential infidelity used to restrict our freedom, something men don't usually consider as a possibility.

Look, if a man is going to cheat at the first opportunity, that means most men are cheating all the time. Opportunity is everywhere. And for men who don't have women flirting with them all the time, there are prostitutes. But a good number of men don't cheat. And there has to be a better explanation than their wives or girlfriends keep them on a short leash.

I feel very passionately on this subject--while it seems like it's advantageous to men on the surface to have this stereotype around because it's a free pass to cheat, it's not so fun for men to deal with a girlfriend or wife who is miserable with suspicions about something that isn't true. Whether we like it or not, these stereotypes seep into our subconscious and, at the first evidence of any wrongdoing, come roaring into our consciousness and can cause a lot of damage. And for no good reason, if someone is innocent. Yes, I've had bad experiences, which I shan't elaborate on. Suffice it to say, these stereotypes are very damaging and people shouldn't just non-chalantly toss them around. I treat every man who says that all men cheat given the chance as someone who is as good as a cheater himself. It's just a matter of time.

155 Comments:

Blogger Pseudo-Adrienne said...

Personally, I believe that men who decide to cheat, do it because there are less risks for them from a reproductive/sexual stand point. And because the men who do cheat, aren't really committed to their relationship.

In regards to the risks; men can't get pregnant (but they can impregnate their lover) and men are less likely to contract some STD's like HIV. Some men (not all men cheat of course) who cheat, view it as just sex or a one-night-stand, that wouldn't interfere in their relationships (in their minds).

Some women maybe very cautious about cheating because they can get pregnant or contract an STD much easier. From what I've read in articles (all biased and based on stereotypes) theorize that women cheat out of the need for more emotional support, romance, and security. Of course this automatically assumes that ALL women are obsessed with their emotions, sappy-romance crap, and security. And ALL men are just sex-driven beasts according to some of these articles (which is NOT true).

This is a really touchy issue. I certainly don't believe that all men are sex-hounds who are natural-born cheaters. Nor do I believe that all women are hopeless romantics, and naturally obsessed with their emotions and security, and only cheat when they want more emotional support, romance, and security.

I believe that people cheat because they're not committed to their relationship, regardless of their gender. To me (not everyone of course, and I'm sure others may disagree), I believe that men have been conditioned to believe that all sex is just sex. So why would they care about cheating if they view all sex to be meaningless, even if they're in a relationship? It's the "it's just sex," "it was a fling," "hey I'm a guy, all men cheat," or "I don't love her, I love you," attitude that some men have (not all men of course).

To me (not everyone of course, I'm sure others disagree) it's about how people define a relationship and how committed they are to that relationship when it comes to why people, especially men, decide to cheat.

Once again, this is just what I think. I'm sure others disagree with me.

1/13/2005

 
Blogger La Lubu said...

The folks who say that "all men would cheat given a chance" are the same people who say things like "everybody would steal if they could get away with it" or "everyone has a price". Bullshit. Some people have integrity and others don't! And the ones that are lacking in the integrity department look for excuses, like saying "oh, everybody does it". Shit. That excuse didn't work with your mom, so grow the fuck up and stop trying to use it now! *ahem*

1/13/2005

 
Blogger echidne said...

It's one of those favorite myths of evolutionary psychologists: that men are horny and women are coy. These guys don't care about the influence of culture on our behavior at all, so any gender differences in sexual behavior are obviously hard-wired. Obviously.

The problem is that evidence may not support that view, at least as strongly as evo-psychos would like. One study done in the U.K. asked them about their cheating and other sexual behaviors and men gave much higher percentages for gratuitous sex than women did. But the problem was that the numbers didn't add up, for the men had only the women to have heterosexual sex with, so the conclusion was that either men or women or both lie in these kinds of surveys, and that the lying is in different directions by sex.

Another piece of evidence in conflict with the evo-psycho view is that as countries become more gender-egalitarian the cheating rates of men and women in such studies start approaching each other. This wouldn't happen if the horniness and coyness were hard-wired.

1/13/2005

 
Blogger Brad Warbiany said...

56 comments over at Steve's blog, huh? So maybe I should just start spouting wildly unprovable, obnoxious assertions over at my blog. People might start commenting...

Frankly, I take offense at this. When I got married, I took those vows to make it work, through thick and thin, and to honor the marriage. Although I'm not religious at all, I consider it a sacred bond that I would do my best to not break.

I know men who don't exactly honor those bonds. And frankly, I feel sorry for them. How strong can your marriage be when you treat it with such disrespect? I can't think that they get the same satisfaction out of marriage that I do.

1/13/2005

 
Blogger Lanoire said...

Steve is given to making ridiculous generalizations like that. It's all bullshit, of course.

1/13/2005

 
Blogger mythago said...

Or, women will decide that if men can't be monogamous, we have no reason to be, either. Why pledge fidelity if he's just going to fuck around?

I somehow don't think that's quite what Steve was getting at.

1/14/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Have you ever seen Moliere's "L'Ecole des Femmes?" If not, I recommend it. It's pretty funny. It does espouse the "all women cheat, get over it" view, but in a way that pokes more fun at the pretensions to status that men seek through monagamous wives (i.e., if she cheats on me, I'm not a real man) than at female infidelity.

Julian Elson

1/14/2005

 
Blogger Catarina - the Swede said...

Fer crying out loud. This is once again proof that you americans are way to hung up on sex. You really can't handle it, can you. Nipples on tv makes you freak out, the word fuck necessitates a beep, and at the same time you can't even control your own genitals. Nudity doesn't equal sex. Friendship doesn't equal sex. Just because two people hang out together (or even cook dinner for eachother) doesn't equal sex.

1/14/2005

 
Blogger Catarina - the Swede said...

Clarification: that comment was for the "all men would cheat anytime" -crowd.

1/14/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can see why the situation ex-girl friend PLUS dinner and a movie alone together at her house PLUS the guy is saying one thing about it and then doing another would bring out all the "guys are going to cheat" crowd. It's not just any old female friend, and the guy isn't exactly trying to make his girl friend feel secure. And if all Steve means about not trusting his dick is that he doesn't constantly throw himself alone together with someone he already knows he's sexually attracted to, or who's sexually attracted to him, well, that's a good rule of thumb for both men and women.

But I'm sure not going to be verifying my husband's every move, getting suspicious of him every time he's with a good female friend and doesn't have me along, or telling him he should never be close to another woman. That's no way to live, and I wouldn't tolerate it from him if he did it to me. Some of those comments sound really disturbing in their level of mistrust of men.

I take it for granted that anyone, man or woman, will be tempted to cheat at one time or another, and that anyone can cheat, and that many will. I also take it for granted that we all have the ability to control ourselves and live up to our obligations. Part of that is not putting ourselves in situations where we'll be constantly tempted, of course - but complete arm's length with anyone of the other sex? And where does that leave us bisexuals - with one friend in the whole world, because we can't be trusted not to cheat with anyone?

Lynn Gazis-Sax

1/14/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The perception of a male being so virile as to require multiple partners is, I believe, more common in African-American culture than white. If you believe that multiple partners indicates virility (a positive) rather than oathbreaking (an obvious negative), then it's common sense that males will try to increase their social standing by sleeping with everyone they can.

I think we're seeing one of Steve's blind spots here.


Everybody thinks about--or at least admits to the possibility of--cheating.

Most people don't cheat.

Some people plan on it.

I think looking at folks' comments on this can tell if they're planning on cheating or not.

--alex

1/14/2005

 
Blogger Ron said...

IMO most people have random sexual thoughts about co-workers, friends, strangers on the train, whoever, all the time. Most don't take it very seriously, nor use it as an excuse to justify cheating. I sometimes fantasize about robbing a bank, but I'll never do that either. Purely recreational sex can be great fun, but it sometimes deepens feelings of loneliness if there is no itimacy with it. I think that is one reason why most people try it out, have some fun, then look for someone that meets thier emotional needs and sexual needs.

1/14/2005

 
Blogger Phila said...

This argument really pisses me off. I'll admit I cheated on people at certain times in my life. But the reason wasn't because "That's what men do": it was because I was a confused, self-hating, narcissitic asshole with no self-control whatsoever. At this point, I'd rather drink rat poison than cheat on my wife. I've had offers; I'm not interested. And it's not like I think it would wreck my marriage, either...I'm sure we'd work it out, eventually. But that's not quite the same thing as "getting away with it."

How exactly can I "get away with" hurting someone who means the world to me? If these guys can't even conceive of being with someone whose well-being and happiness means as much to him as his own (if not more), they've got some real problems. This is what I hate about pop-science sociobiology...it tries to take the garden-variety assholiness of immature men, and give it the force and grandeur of natural law.

1/14/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

Also, Ron, dating is hard work. Sure, we all say monogamy is great for the intimacy, etc. But it is also great for the farting in front of each other part.

1/14/2005

 
Blogger Ron said...

Ha ha. Too true. My fiance totally cracks up at my farts! She thinks they're hilarious. I love her for that... And other things of course.

Now, if I could only get her to accept that licking the ice cream bowl is acceptable. I hate to let that chocolate syrup go to waste.

1/14/2005

 
Blogger Hugo said...

What Philalethes said. Word for f-ing word.

1/14/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's a poisonous assertion. I do have friends who suffer from constant suspicion-- but they're the exception, not the rule.

People can vow incredible things and make them true. In any serious relationship (where the vow is unspoken but implict), but especially in marriage, there is a promise to uphold. Since the only requirement can be completely fulfilled by your own actions, there's no excuse for breaking your promise. Oathbreaker's a terrible reputation to have, and defending it (even in the abstract) undermines our confidence in others.
--Scott

1/14/2005

 
Blogger Kyria said...

>The perception of a male being so virile as to require multiple partners is, I believe, more common in African-American culture than white.<

Is it just me, or does anyone else find this remark sort of ... breathtaking?

1/14/2005

 
Blogger La Lubu said...

breathtaking? Naaah, kyria, I'd use another b-word....bigoted.

1/14/2005

 
Blogger mythago said...

What Philalethes said. We're all genetically programmed to crap on the floor, but most of us manage to overcome our Genetic Destiny and use the potty appropriately. It doesn't make any sense to blame infidelity on genes either.

1/14/2005

 
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Wow. I knew the seventies had been erased from public consciousness, but I hadn't realized the sixties were going as well.

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