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Thursday, January 13, 2005

Porn

My post below and this post by Hugo on misogyny got me to thinking about the subject of porn. And since I want to avoid polluting up his blog with a meandering discussion on the talents of porn actors or anything like that, I thought I'd drag it to Mouse Words, where we say "fuck" and don't give a fuck who reads it.

Anyway, I had all these long, meandering thoughts on the subject that I'm sure were really deep when I was thinking them, but I am stuck on one thing I touched on lightly over at Hugo's blog when I called porn a "masturbation product". Why is there this sudden and tedious fascination with porn in our culture now? I know I'm not the first person to ask this question, but I am honestly flummoxed. We're like a bunch of 12 years old snickering at a magazine we found in the trash can. I realize that it's titillating to think about people who have sex with thousands of people for money, but god knows it's certainly not a new thing to do.

I mean, at its core, porn is a masturbation aid. It's only other purpose, as far as I can tell, is to be emailed to your friends so they can snicker at it. Sure, a lot of it has appallingly sexist portrayals of women, but then again, so does the majority of television shows. Some is violent, but I see a lot more eroticized violence in regular movies. Mostly, it's tedious and that's how it's supposed to be, since it's not really meant for watching for much longer than 10 minutes or so.

I get embarrassed for men who are really proud of their porn-viewing habits. It's as if I had a bunch of vibrators and dildos in a glass case or something. I'm not embarrassed about masturbation or anything, but it's hardly something to take a lot of pride in. It just is what it is. I'm not putting people down who make or sell sex aids for a living--we need you, of course. But that's their job. The rest of us need to chill.

And of course, the people that obsess over porn know on a certain level that dedicating that much attention to is adolescent and silly. So they puff it up to be something that it's not like some writers at a certain online magazine that I read every day and link to with some regularity but am not going to call by name, except to say that it starts with "S" and ends with "n". Watching Jenna Jameson have sex might make you horny, but I don't think that it's really a deep experience. Not that sexuality can't be a deep experience--even masturbation can teach you more about yourself--but it's just a tool. Like a dildo. Which doesn't get laudatory write-ups in liberal magazines on a regular basis.

Does porn give men unrealistic ideas about women? Probably, but to me that indicates that we have much bigger fish to fry in the sexual realm, beginning with how it is that men and women are placed in so much opposition to each other that some of us are getting more ideas about each other from movies and magazines than we are by relating to one another. Call me an idealist, but if men and women were more open and really listened to each other, you'd have a lot less men thinking that X should work for his girlfriend because it works in the porn movies.

Do porn consumers hide from their relationships with porn? A few, I'm sure, but I see no evidence that there's a widespread problem out there of men refusing the warm bodies of the women in their lives in favor of a cold computer or television screen. Those who do hide would probably be hiding no matter what the excuse is.

519 Comments:

Blogger Fritz said...

Funny, one of your earlier posts got me thinking about porn as well. I think it is detrimental to male/female relations and it certainly creates very unrealistic expectations in men. And it denigrates women and perpetuates the idea of women as objects. Having said that, I still enjoy it occasionally. I do have to wonder why so much of it involves humiliating women. Do men feel so threatened by female sexuality that they have to treat them like dirt?

1/13/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wah!

-a Salon employee

1/13/2005

 
Blogger FoolishOwl said...

I think part of the reason for all the obsessing with porn is that it's an enormously profitable industry, and growing. That, and advertising for porn is incredibly obtrusive.

One of the things that's worried me for some time is that the free weekly newspapers in the San Francisco area, newspapers which are known and trusted for their left-of-center editorial lines, all depend heavily on advertising for prostitution and porn. That'd certainly make for some distortion of their coverage of issues related to women.

I've been wondering whether part of the myth about only men, not women, being sexual, has something to do with social processes of exaggerating men's sexual desires. From what I can tell, the point of porn is to get sexually aroused -- perhaps men who consume a lot of porn feel that they *should* be sexually aroused more often then they would be without the porn.

1/13/2005

 
Blogger Hugo said...

Amanda, you and I are not far apart here, but I am afraid that I must disagree with this:

"I see no evidence that there's a widespread problem out there of men refusing the warm bodies of the women in their lives in favor of a cold computer or television screen..."

In my men's groups and among my friends, I do see that very problem and I see it growing by leaps and bounds. Now, my friends may not be representative of the wider world. They are mostly white men between 35-50, well-educated middle-class professionals, and most are Christians and active in the church. And almost everyone of them struggles with porn to the point where it has had a serious, deleterious effect on their marriages. Anecdotal evidence, sure, but other men's organizations report similar stuff.

Porn offers fulfillment without connection to another real human being, and I, for spiritual as well as emotional reasons, am deeply troubled by that. Call that Christian idealism mixed with feminism if you will, but I'm convinced it's a more serious problem than you are prepared to admit. Of course, your point that it is a symptom of an even deeper problem --- alienation -- is well-taken.

1/13/2005

 
Blogger Phila said...

I find porn kind of boring, by and large. I kind of like the stuff from the turn of the century, but that's more general curiosity...I like watching people walk down the street in 1910, too.

But one thing that kind of disturbed me recently was this porn that incorporated shots from cameras placed inside the woman. Maybe I was overreacting, but I felt that it connected somewhat to the urge towards sexual mutilation that some rapists and murderers have. At any rate, it definitely seemed unwholesome.

The unreality of most porn - what Stephen Marcus called "Pornotopia" - gets mentioned often, but I sort of feel like it's even worse, in a way...people aren't seeing life as real or solid, and are trying to make it more real by obsessing over representations of basic things like sex and death.

A friend of mine once saw American tourists visiting the Louvre, and looking at the paintings through camcorders. That, to me, suggests an incredible amount of alienation...relying on "evidence" to make up for what you lack in felt experience. That's reification with a vengeance. And I think the same mechanism is at work with porn, especially in the explosion of amateur sites.

1/13/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

Hugo, in all honesty I think that taboo against porn has a lot to do with why it is damaging to relationships. It's easy enough to see why it would be threatening to a woman, who in turn demands that her husband not look at it, which he agrees to because the taboo against it is strong, but then he does it anyway, she finds out and get angry and the rift is there. There are a number of solutions to this cycle, one of which is for men to willingly give up the porn, but that's not a solution that I am comfortable with in my own house.

I don't want my boyfriend to be threatened because I have any masturbation materials around, and in return I feel I have to try not to be threatened by his stuff. I have thought it over more than the breezy tone of this post my indicate and I cannot say that any resentment I have against porn is anything more than petty anger that the actresses seem sexier than me. But realistically, I know that's irrelevant to his and my relationship for a variety of reasons--for one thing, there's no reason for me to think that he's actually all that attracted to plastic-looking blondes.

1/13/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

1/13/2005

 
Blogger Hugo said...

I don't think that the problem lies with bodies, actually. In other words, Amanda, I don't think the danger is that your boyfriend (or any man who looks at porn) is comparing your body to the images in the magazine or on the computer. The problem is that most women want a man who will "show up" in bed emotionally as well as physically, a man who is present. Sex in a relationship ought to make clear the connection between physical pleasure and emotional intimacy. The women in porn don't demand anything of men. They "give themselves up" regardless, and that unconditional acceptance can be immensely addictive. In the real experience of many of my friends, actual sex with a spouse or lover can become a chore.

I draw a big distinction between "masturbation materials" like sex toys and visual pornography for this very reason. Yes, we all have fantasies when we masturbate, but I think there's an important difference.

1/13/2005

 
Blogger james d said...

Hugo: It seems to me that the men who have the biggest problems with things like porn and homosexuality are the Very Christian men. I suppose someone could hypothesize that, for some strange reason, Christian men are just bigger deviants than the rest of us. But what it probably really is is that Christian men are made to feel guilty about their sexual feelings. So instead of being able to watch porn for 10 minutes, get off, and get on with their lives, they have to spend the rest of the day feeling guilty about how "bad" they are, how unnatural it is, blah blah blah, which just gets them thinking about porn more. Which probably gets them to watch it more. Which gets their wives to notice something weird and sound the Christian Alarm that her husband is a freak.

Everyone is a rebel. Something in human nature makes us want to do things we are told we shouldn't. The more you tell kids not to have sex or men not to watch porn, the more you're going to hear about them doing it.

Hugo, it's not that your friends have a problem--it's that your community views their actions (which are most likely very similar to most men in America's) as a problem. Creating the problem, you see, where it then gets blown completely out of proportion.

1/13/2005

 
Blogger Lauren said...

I actually had a relationship end on the basis of a man's porn habit, primarily the comparison he made between me and his idealized versions of sex. When I pointed out that he didn't meet the porn ideal (or mine) either, the relationship dissolved.

On the topic of homogeneity, porn and other versions of media-ized sexual realms are just another way for men to relate to one another on a superficial level, a la sports and politics. It's all masturbatory.

OT: I've been waiting for a time to use the term "spank bank" in a post and this seemed a good a time as any. So, well, spank bank.

1/13/2005

 
Blogger Hugo said...

James, I absolutely agree with you about human nature. The difference between us is our response to the reality of that nature: I argue you that what it means to be a good, kind, civilized, decent man is to overcome one's baser desires; you seem to be arguing that that is fruitless and that we should simply give in and indulge ourselves.

I've seen too much heartbreak -- of the kind that Lauren hints at here -- to accept that. One area where profeminist men and Christian men intersect is their conviction that biology is not destiny and desire alone insufficient grounds for action....

1/13/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

Interesting point. I'm curious to hear what these men would have to say exactly, because from what I've seen in my own admittedly limited experience, men can in fact choose to separate fantasy life from real experience. Porn is like junk food in that sense. Eat it if your hungry, but don't mistake it for the real thing.

1/13/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

Hugo, I think what James and I are saying (correct me if I'm wrong, James), is that certain base desires are best dealt with by moderate indulgence. If you allow yourself a little of something and don't make a big deal about it, it doesn't plague you. But if you forbid something, it becomes alluring and grows bigger and bigger in the mind until you binge on it.

I hate to resort again to the food metaphor, but it's well-known that the best preventative against binge eating is to allow yourself a small portion of the desired food every once in awhile.

1/13/2005

 
Blogger Hugo said...

Amanda, I hear you, but I reject the analogy. Food has no feelings -- women who work in the porn business do. Very, very few wives and girlfriends are likely to feel threatened by a burger or a Snickers bar. I'm not against indulgence from time to time in certain things (catch me with Cadbury Cream Eggs) - but I do see sexuality as a distinct and more sacred area of life than one's diet.

1/13/2005

 
Blogger Maureen said...

I think it depends on what we're calling porn--are we talking about the typically exploitive Hollywood product or a more independent product made by people who genuinely care about each other?

1/13/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hugo, your Christian group wouldn't happen to subscribe to the belief that "the thought equals the deed", would it? Because in my experience, it's not humanly possible to eliminate our base desires, and the attempt is doomed to failure. If one equates looking at a porn video to a real-life sweaty session of adultery, then yes, you are going to have terrible struggles with porn.

But I have a tough time equating jerking off in front of the TV to the betrayal of a marriage oath. People are going to have different sex drives, and preferences, and will have to compromise. Everyone does. Perfectly compatible partners have yet to be invented. If you liked, for example, fisting, and your partner didn't, there are three options open to you:

1. Find another partner.

2. Decide you can live with straight sex and just fantasizing about fisting.

3. Renounce the practice of fisting and all desire for it.

The problem is that our sexual desires seem to be pretty hard-wired. Option "3" seems to mostly make people miserable.

Now, does porn give people unrealistic expectations? Yes. So do sitcoms, where family problems are solved in thirty minutes. I will even go so far as to say that porn is not a Good Thing. But I would have to place it on the Bad Thing scale at roughly the same position as soft drinks or cigarettes: not good for one but only hazardous in excess.

--alex (posting anonymously 'cause I'm too lazy to register today)

1/13/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with Mouse's words on vibrators. In a recent interview with The Guardian, Debbie Stoller of Bust talked about the controversy surrounding vibrator reviews in that magazine:
"And while we're on vibrators, they're the focus of almost all controversy alighting on this magazine. I don't want to give the impression that the publication is like some kind of vibrator trade mag; there really isn't that much about them. There's a vibrator road-test and a couple of ads. It's about as prominent a part of the female experience in Bust as hair removal is in a mainstream magazine. And yet they've had every complaint under the sun, from their own printers threatening to stop production of the magazine to the readers complaining about the vibrator in the shape of a gun. "There's a sexual double standard. It's really OK for girls to be sexy, and it's really not OK for them to be sexual. When it's about a girl's own pleasure, and not about pleasing someone else, that is still taboo. We could talk about how to rouge your nipples in extreme detail, or how to shave your pussy hair into a topiary design of a snake, and it's all, 'Oh, it's awesome, you guys are breaking ground and being so sexy', but the minute you talk about a vibrator or anything that's not about looking good for guys, no one can deal with it.""

read the rest of the article here if you're interested:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,1384649,00.html

1/13/2005

 
Blogger Deja Pseu said...

Thing is, I've known at least two women whose marriages have broken up over porn. Not because the guy kept a couple of "Jugs" magazines stashed in the bathroom either. In one case, the guy ran up tens of thousands of dollars of debt from phone sex and internet porn sites. In the other case, the guy spent pretty much all his time at home surfing internet porn sites, and wasn't willing to curtail the activity to interract more with his family.

I think it's probably true that for most folks, porn is something they indulge in occasionally and it doesn't take over their lives. But I think for those who have addictive tendencies, it can get to be like gambling or shoplifting or other "process" addictions, it certainly can destroy relationships, and not just because the woman is a prude who doesn't like to think of her SO masturbating. People who suffer from process addictions often use the activity (and the associated excitement) to distract themselves from other, more uncomfortable feelings, or to avoid intimacy.

1/13/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

But it does not follow that the rest of us should not have to curtail our behavior because a handful of people have problems.

1/13/2005

 
Blogger Deja Pseu said...

I wasn't suggesting that it does. My point was that porn, like any other behavior which most of us can enjoy in moderation but some can not, can have serious ramifications in a relationship. I know some people (not you, of course) like to blame some women's objections to porn on prudishness, but I can see where some women saying "I don't want porn in my home" would be akin to saying "I don't want a gambling casino in my neighborhood." Doesn't mean we don't all enjoy a trip to Vegas now and then. ;)

1/13/2005

 
Blogger yami mcmoots said...

I think we all recognize that there are people who have a hard time keeping fantasy in its place, distinct from and subordinate to reality, or have other problems with compulsions or relationships that would only be exacerbated by porn. As Hugo and Lauren indicate, the extent of these problems may be greater than anyone imagines. But I think the more interesting question is how porn impacts those who can't be simply dismissed as "too vulnerable".

In my experience, men who assume I will/should respond like a porn star are easily corrected. Contrariwise, men who assume I'll respond like an ex-girlfriend are much harder to convince. (As an aside: it's easier, I think, to recognize the unrealistic nature of women in porn than to do the same for men. Seeing what's supposed to be male fantasy, I certainly never got the impression that men have the wonderfully subtle, diverse sexualities they do!) It kinda makes me think that the overwhelming homogeneity of porn is more damaging than the presence of specific themes.

So, all y'all: if you could pick between porn that showed women as respectfully treated identical objects, or as "real people" who are active participants in varied, idiosyncratic, but generally degrading sex, which would you pick? Recognizing, of course, that the second choice might be problematic when it comes to actresses (cartoon porn?) or a broader social context that might prevent the viewer from interpreting such a film sans objectification...

1/13/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

Good question, yami. I'd have to see the finished products to decide, but my gut reaction is the latter. I've seen a few porns, very few, where the women seemed to be really having a good time. I can tell a fake smile from a real one, and a fake orgasm from a real one is even easier. Most porn makes me cringe on a certain level, but those few just don't.

1/13/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have to respond to this:

"Hugo, your Christian group wouldn't happen to subscribe to the belief that "the thought equals the deed", would it? Because in my experience, it's not humanly possible to eliminate our base desires, and the attempt is doomed to failure. If one equates looking at a porn video to a real-life sweaty session of adultery, then yes, you are going to have terrible struggles with porn."

My Quaker meeting doesn't talk much about porn at all, and from what little brief conversation we've had (my fault - I raised the question once during social hour after meeting for worship - mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa), I don't think we're all of one mind. But I myself, personally, share Hugo's Christian reservations about porn, and it doesn't, for me, having anything to do with believing that we can eliminate our base desires.

I don't think I'm a prude, either, in any general sense. I'm happy to read Savage Love, and Susie Bright, and laugh at the stories about flea's sex shop. Our video collection includes The People vs. Larry Flynt, I've seen Boogie Nights, and I'm fine with Joel's love of Anais Nin. I simply have a specific moral reservation about porn videos, which is that watching them, or renting them, would effectively mean I'm paying someone, by proxy, to have sex with a near stranger. I don't feel right about doing that. I feel that there are some things too intimate and personal for me to pay someone else to do on my behalf - carrying my child (I wouldn't use a surrogate mother even if it were the only way I could have a child), having sex.

Admittedly, it is really, really easy for me to say I won't have porn videos in the house, since I've never heard anything that made me think I would actually like them, and Joel's never expressed an interest in bringing them home. I don't especially care to go on Christian moral rants about porn; it feels like picking the one thing I don't want to do anyway, and making a virtue of what I already wanted to do. But I do want to explain that one can have a reason to have moral reservations about porn videos, without believing that people are capable of, well, completely getting rid of their sexual imagination.

As for other things that might come under the general heading of "porn," well, it depends on how you define porn. I've encountered some people who use a loose enough definition to call Andrew Greeley novels soft porn; I'm certainly not going to avoid everything those people would class as porn.

Lynn Gazis-Sax

1/14/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

True--porn is,on a certain level, glorified prostitution. (The movies, that is. Not girlie mags or novels or whatever.) But thats the thing. If these actresses weren't in porn, how likely is it that they would be prostitutes instead? Maybe more than we'd like to think. And call girls sleep with a lot more strangers than porn actresses, and they make much less money at it.

By no means am I saying your qualms are wrong. If you are against paying people for sex, then it's consistent to be against porn. If only more people showed consistency in their views, this would be a better world. And I think I'm consistent in mine, as I don't think that paying for sex is out and out wrong, though I have a serious issue with the conditions of prostitutes' lives. Thing is, big porn studios probably give their employees a much better living than even legal brothels do.

1/14/2005

 
Blogger zuzu said...

On a note related to the why-so-much-porn-now query, what is it with the sudden glorification of strippers and the embrace of women of acting/dressing/learning to dance like strippers? And going to strip clubs with their boyfriends/husbands/friends?

I don't mean burlesque, I mean pole-dancing.

1/14/2005

 
Blogger Hugo said...

Lynn, you said it better than I could.

Zuzu, I hear you, and have noticed this phenomenon. Part of it is, I think, whistling in the graveyard. Many women figure men are going to do this (go to strip clubs) anway, so I might as well pretend to like it. That way I can be hip and cool, and no one will accuse me of being a prude. I can be edgy and modern and still feel connected to my boyfriend/husband.

Never mind the colossal exploitation of women in stripping. The drugs, the "stage fees", the dehumanization, the overwhelming history of abuse among most strippers. I dated a stripper, once, not that I am prepared to blog about it. She got rid of my illusions that it was harmless real quick.

1/14/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hugo: I owe you an apology--my first comment was based on your comment here; I have since read your post on misogyny. I agree that the degradation of women in pornography is easily the best argument against is existence. There's lots of the stuff that is not only not erotic, but actually horrifying.

I think that's one of the reasons the stuff is getting more mainstream acceptance, really. The objectification of women and their reduction to sexual accessories is another expression of the backlash against feminism. And don't discount the simple pressures of the marketplace--if it was legal to do the Superbowl show in the nude, it'd probably happen. Anything to get more eyeballs on the screen.

Think about all the things you see on TV that you'll never have: the huge house overlooking the ocean, the rap-artist lifestyle, the SUV with 24-inch rims, that $2000/night resort in Bali.

But for $29.99 you can buy a DVD that lets you pretend that you're having a hot sex life, instead of being a lonely aging guy tugging at his own penis.

It's quiet desperation.

--alex

1/14/2005

 
Blogger mythago said...

So, when we talk about "porn" here, what are we talking about? Videos? Magazines? The written word? Pole dancing?

I admit I am flabbergasted at the fixation on porn. Long before a teenage boy picks up a copy of Playboy, he's been immersed in a culture that teaches him boys are better than girls. I've always felt that the sexist part of such magazines are not the pictures, but the articles--the ones that talk about how to trick women into having sex, whine about how women make up stories about date rape, rate actresses' breasts, and so on. Maxim is a hundred times worse for women than a S.I.R. Video film.

And let's not overlook the women's magazines. Why do we blow off teen-girl magazines that make Boys And How To Dedicate Your Life to Pleasing Them the center of a girl's existence, so that we can fuss about a grown woman looking at a photo of an erect penis?

Hugo, as a former stripper, let me say that it was nowhere near as exploitative and destructive as other pink-collar jobs. I quit working as a bank teller to be a stripper because I was treated FAR better, by everyone from customers to management, for better pay.

1/14/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I haven't looked at Playboy in a long while, but I actually remember it as having some decent and informative articles (although, could be I just managed to skip over the junk). Maxim's articles, on the other hand, are sexist crap.

What is pole dancing, and how does it differ from burlesque? I'm afraid my knowledge of stripping is confined to the musical version of Gypsy Rose Lee's life.

I've been thinking about yami's question: "if you could pick between porn that showed women as respectfully treated identical objects, or as "real people" who are active participants in varied, idiosyncratic, but generally degrading sex, which would you pick?" Not so much in terms of what I'd choose in the way of porn videos (since, as I've said, I choose no porn videos), but in terms of writing, where it depends a whole lot on how the story is told. _Lolita_, after all, shows an individual, quite realistic girl subjected to generally degrading sex, and even though the story is told by her captor as a justification of his actions, the book winds up decidedly on Lolita's side.

Lynn Gazis-Sax

1/15/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

On second thought, I guess pole dancing must be what I know of as lap dancing. So, unless it's something different from that, you don't need to answer my earlier question.

Lynn Gazis-Sax

1/15/2005

 
Blogger zuzu said...

What is pole dancing, and how does it differ from burlesque? I'm afraid my knowledge of stripping is confined to the musical version of Gypsy Rose Lee's life.You answered your own question about pole dancing, but burlesque is something closer to what Gypsy Rose Lee did (she actually did striptease, not stripping), what with the singing, jokes and sort of Vaudevillian vibe.

1/15/2005

 
Blogger mythago said...

I recall a Playboy with thoughful articles, but tons of regular columnists whining about The Oppression of Men, a Playboy Advisor who told men to dump girlfriends if they didn't put out enough but advised women to suck it up if their boyfriends were suboptimal, and so on. Don't forget the Hugh Hefner quote about feminists--"these chick are our natural enemy."

1/15/2005

 
Anonymous jenna jameson said...

Thank you "Mouse Words" Jenna is so hot ;)

4/18/2005

 
Blogger J.L. said...

I (as a red-blooded, heterosexual bloke) am sick of having sex pushed in my face all the time. Sex and porn are everywhere you look - You just can't escape: It's in advertising, in magazines, in fashion trends, on 'family' TV shows, in movies, in school. It is insidious, and distorts men's perceptions of women. Disgusting is not too strong a word for the rampant sexualisation of young teens. I don't have kids, but I imagine that I'd be less than happy with my daughter wearing a thong hanging out of her jeans, or anything with the Playboy logo on it. The sugar-coated porn culture that your children are being fed suggests that it's OK to be like pornstars and do what they do. Is it any wonder that rape and sexual offending is on the rise, as society's tolerance for the more disturbing elements of porn increases, and it becomes ubiqituous. The 'tease' eventually becomes too tempting.
Porn is a cheap way of wielding power, and men are easily enticed.

7/02/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I couldn't disagree more.

what the hell people?

is Tom Delay a "moral" man that sounds like the alternative doesn't it?

Don't you get it yet?

this shit about "demonizing" women is all a fucking bullshit conjob.

girls enjoy teasing men, I know several of them who do....and stripping if thats what you like, is an empowering experience. a great expression and easy way to connect....it is NOT some disgraceful thing.

its all in how you look at it. if you see something as degrading or bad, than it might be to you, but it isn't neccesarily to the one doing it. girls strip or get into porn for money and most of them are smart enough to tell a guy to fuck off if they are attacked or...."objectified" or whatever else..

if they don't do that, then it becomes a big scandal. but this goes on both sides for both sexes. if someone enjoys their job let them damn well do it and don't question people's "motives".

I see all this crap about being politically correct.....and I see the most corrupt politics I've ever seen on the OTHER side..

so umm...fuck that. and yes express yourself (and use protection too) do not supress yourself....hollar

9/23/2005

 
Blogger Frisky Fitness said...

I teach Striptease and Pole dancing for Frisky Fitness. Pole dancing is not lap dancing. But I thought the Pole pun was very funny. Anyways, I have had ladies take that are single, married, and widowed. It is not true that they do this thinking their mate is going anyway.Afterall, a widow's hubby isn't going anywhere. Many have various reasons for taking.Here's just a few- to improve other style's of dance including salsa, tango and any that involve being passionate , to get in touch with there sensual self, for the exercise with expression- verse's counting to eight and being bored, for the giggles during birthday or bachlorette parties, to dance for a spouse without having to go to a bar to see what is done, for themselves, and for many other's not listed.
For a better idea on things you can view http://www.friskyfitness.com
I have clips-clothed of course. Classes are fully clothed. The focus is more on dancing, which can be strenous.If you have seen Circus Ole perform on Poles. You have an idea of pole dancing. The mind set for classes, is much like ladies taking belly dancing. With that in mind- not all ladies take belly dancing to do it at home for their partners.
Stripping as a job? The job discription is being a believeable sex object. Afterall, it is selling fantasy. It requires acting, physical fitness, and dance ability. Not to metion marketing skills, including reading body language. It is work no doubt.
For those ladies open enough to express themselves in this way for a partner. I say Great! After all, if it is their idea. Something they want to share with their partner, then it is empowering.
Nicole

9/26/2005

 
Blogger Frisky Fitness said...

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MUSICAL EXERCIES – Put on your favorite music and do some yoga! No need for slow, elevator music. Move to your favorite beat. Or pop on the headphones or earphones and grab your MP3 or cassette player or handheld PC and bike to a nearby park. Too cold or rainy? Then head to a mall or other enclosed area where you can walk. Caution: make sure you are alert while listening to music with headphones or earphones.

FUN IN THE SUN – Check out the latest tanning solutions and try fun, scented versions with funky, multi-colored sunglasses. Grab your cassette player or MP3 player and favorite tunes. And pack some flavored water, new flavored health bar that you’ve been dying to try and some frozen berries in your carryall for breaks and have a “sense”-ational time.

FITNESS CLASSES – Try out a new fitness class for fun. Enjoy a full water aerobics workout with less stress on your joints. Grab some colorful water gear and swim to the beat. Or try a dance or Jazzercise routine. No need to commit long-term, just ask about popping in for a class or two to check it out and enjoy. Meet new friends and get fit all at once.

VCR / DVD – Head to the library or local rental store and grab a fun fitness video or DVD. Crank up the sound when your favorite tunes come on and join the taped workout participants in the privacy of your own home.

GYM / FITNESS CENTER – Dig out those coupons you’ve been receiving in envelop mailers and those money saving coupon magazines. Again, no need to commit long-term. Just head on over and use the free or low-cost trial / invitational period and enjoy!

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You do not have to own a garden to tap into the benefits of plants, roots and herbs. A few herb pots located by a sunny window are enough to get you started. Then, all you need are some essential oils and you are ready to go.

For therapeutic purposes, only the purest oils will do. It is possible to be fooled into thinking that you are purchasing a pure oil. Often, a lesser quality blend of several oils is used to mimic the properties of the pure oil. Blended oils are acceptable for fragrance purposes such as for perfuming a room, but pure oils are a "must" for medicinal purposes.

A reasonable guide to the purity of an essential oil is its price. Pure essential oils are generally more expensive. Common oils such as lavender and geranium are much cheaper than frankincense and carnation oil. It is advisable to become familiar with essential oil prices and then rely on this knowledge when purchasing oils from unfamiliar sources. Keep in-mind that you will generally get what you pay for. A price list from a reputable dealer is a valuable resource when purchasing essentials oils.

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