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Tuesday, February 08, 2005

More on childlessness

I really don't see the need to call it being "childfree". Anyway, the National Center for Health Statistics has finally realized that men's feelings about having children have some bearing on the actual practice of having children, and have decided to collect statistics on men's reproductive choices after having done so for women for 30 years. Salon is taking this as an opportunity to write about one of their pet topics, the choice to be permanently childless. In this case, the article is about men who decide to get vasectomies without ever having children, which is hands down the best choice for a single man or a couple who wants never to have children.

One thing I thought was odd about the whole thing was how the men who did this faced protests from people not because they were afraid that these men were robbing themselves of fatherhood, but because they were afraid that these men were somehow robbing women of motherhood. One man said that people told him he was hurting his future wife. Another's girlfriend actually argued that he was taking choices away from her. It's a good reminder in any case what reproductive choice means, which is the choice to maintain bodily intergrity. If it's a man's body and he doesn't want to be making sperm, that's his choice. If it's a woman's body and she does or does not want to be pregnant, that's her choice.

Anyway, one thing that bugged me a little about the article was the "childfree" people they interviewed. There is so much pressure to have children in our culture that those of us who wish not to feel like we have to come up with really extreme arguments to justify ourselves. And you get a big dose of that when they interview some of the people from No Kidding.

When they are out together and hear screeching kids, they give each other a knowing look and feel a sense of relief. Still, as the wedding approaches (where no kids are allowed, of course) Moran is all about keeping an open mind.

I sympathize with the desire to be aggressively anti-child in a world where it seems sometimes that everyone is turning gaga for the babies. When you're the weirdo, it's tempting to justify yourself by claiming some sort of superiority. But I flinched to read about the knowing looks (much less the wedding ban). I don't want other people to think I pity them for having children anymore than I want other people to give me a fakey pity for not having them. So let it be known that some of us deliberately childless people don't hate children. You can show us pictures of your baby and we will make coochie-coo noises.

61 Comments:

Blogger bitchphd said...

Thanks for this post! Maybe I've read too many Salon pieces, but it seems like there is a lot of anti-kid rhetoric out there (and a lot of irritating pro-kid-all-the-time do-it-for-the-children rhetoric, too) and it's always nice when someone says something that is both obvious and simple, but for some reason never ever actually said.

2/08/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So it's extreme to roll your eyes when you're around ill-behaved children? Heck, I know parents who do that! I also roll my eyes around ill-behaving adults, huge SUVs, and any TV with FOX News on it.

Extreme is barking "get that thing out of my face now!" if a kid gets within 10 feet. Exchanging a glance when dealing with unpleasant situations (whether a screaming child or a demanding relative or a nutty boss) and deciding who gets to come to your wedding seems pretty darn moderate to me.

Please don't start calling your fellow non-parents child haters - it's the equivalent of calling feminists man haters because some (some!) of them prefer to lead lives where they interact with very few men.

--Rachel

2/08/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think that it's good that single men are taking the initiative to control their reproductive organs as women have for the past thirty years with birth control pills. I wish sexually active anti-choice men who never use condoms but then have the nerve to complain about the woman they impregnated having an abortion would get vasectomies but that's just my personal opinion.

These ignorant people who say "you're hurting your future girlfriend/wife by getting a vasectomy" clearly don't give half-a-shit about people's personal and reproductive freedom, and only have their own hidden agenda in mind concerning the supposed "purposes" of relationships (in this case, procreation), when they make such offensive remarks to non-traditional and childfree people.

It's HIS body and HIS choice; stay out of his vas defrens folks. As a feminist I defend not only a woman's right to choose her own reproductive destiny in the means of birth control pills and safe and legal abortions, but also a man's right to get a vasectomy without ever having children.

And FYI, if women want to have children then they can either adopt or use anonymous sperm donation. And if these kinds of women only get into a relationship with a man for the sake of ONLY having children then their priorities are fucked-up and selfish (and vice versa in the case of men).

I really don't understand why some women act as if they always need a man for this and that, and in this case for sperm to have children. It's the twenty-first century women, wake up. And relationships do NOT always need children as the result. That's the wrong reason to ever get into a relationship in the first place.

I would never get into a relationship where the guy viewed me as an incubator for his sperm, nor would I ever encourage guys to get into a relationship with a woman who only viewed him to be a sperm donor.

2/08/2005

 
Blogger Amanda Marcotte said...

Rachel, I used to be one of those people who threw smug looks at her man when a child would annoy. Now that more of my friends are taking the baby route and being happy with it, I've learned a little humility. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

2/08/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nu, Amanda, you don't think I have friends who are parents? Heck, the three women I talk to most often are all ramping up to become parents in the next year, and I have other friends and acquaintances with infants to teenagers. It is surpassingly difficult to be a woman approaching 40 and not know any parents.

That being said, I can have an attitude of "better you than me" and still love my friends. None of my friends who are or plan to be parents want my life, so why do I need to want theirs? So long as they raise their children to be decent people and maintain a space in their lives for adult relationships, we will remain friends.

--Rachel

2/08/2005

 
Blogger FoolishOwl said...

IMHO: I think any man who refuses to use a condom should be dumped immediately. Preferably, from a moving vehicle at speed on a freeway.

I've thought about getting a vasectomy, but the whole "what if I change my mind?" thing nags at me. Not that it seems likely that I would change my mind about having children if I haven't already, and frankly I'm probably too old to have children now, but it's not an easy decision to make.

Of course, I'm also too chicken to get a tattoo.

2/08/2005

 
Blogger Amanda Marcotte said...

I think we're on the same page, Rachel. I don't want my friends' lives but I don't think they made bad choices. And the smug look thing always felt like I was being defensive about what I feel is the right choice for me, if an unpopular one. Now I don't really care to throw the smug look, since that makes me feel like this is a contest and it's just not.

Truth is a lot of people feel weird about having kids, too, and can be really defensive about it. Like we're judging them for being grown-ups and boring and stuff. And sure, I used to make jokes about that and now I feel bad because I see it can really hurt people's feelings. So I make my jokes, but I try to frame them in a way that doesn't pass judgement on people just because they had kids.

Well, except the soccer moms who let their kids bounce all over the insides of their SUVs. Regardless of their reasons, I'm rolling my eyes at them.

2/08/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I always think of "childfree" as a polite way of answering the inevitable question. "No, I'm childfree" is code for "No, I don't have children, and I'm FINE WITH THAT, so please don't start harassing me about it and assuming I'm pining away for babies." Not that that works 100%, of course. But as terminology, it doesn't bother me.
This post reminds me of one I saw on a childfree/parents "finding common ground" message board I read. One of the CF women was complaining, "Why do I have to come off as a child hater when I like kids? If I ever say anything nice about a child in public, everyone assumes I'm changed my mind." I think that's where a lot of it comes from. I sure as hell watch my language around people who are just waiting for me to change my mind about it. I made the mistake of saying something about Boo from Monsters Inc. and next thing you know, the guy's going on about how I want to be a parent. Grr.
-Jennifer

2/08/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Respecting others' reproductive choices (whether to reproduce or not) is the very essence of being "pro-choice."

(But I still secretly laugh when I hear those with children dismissed as "breeders.")

cmc

2/08/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amanda - a few months ago I would have agreed with you that a vasectomy would be the best choice for a straight couple. However, a friend of mine said something quite chilling shortly after the elections that has made me change my mind. If these rightwing extremists get their way, look for abortion to be thrown back to the states or outlawed, she said, and *you* could still be raped. So, now I'm leaning in the other direction. And there are new procedures (a friend of mine just had 'essure' - non surgical blockage of fallopian tubes) that are even less invasive than laparascopic.

Anyway... my friend's comment really made me reconsider.

I agree that "childfree" has a different connotation than "childless" and I use it when necessary to indicate that it's a choice, not a tragic bereavement.

I am also often in the situation of knowing that if I act interested in and comfortable around children (which I am - I was the oldest of 30 first cousins spanning more than 30 years.. most in the same town.. I know from dealing with kids..) that people will start whispering (or talking loudly) about how I'm sure to change my mind and it must be a sign! And so on. Incredibly frustrating.

I'm also of two minds about the counselling/advice that people get before doctors will perform a sterilization. When my husband talked to our doctor for some preliminary information, she gave him the usual spiels along with a new one I hadn't heard: "If something happens to your wife, and you remarry...." I agree that it's a bit presumptuous to assume that people don't know their own mind, but in any other type of elective (or non-elective) surgery I would expect my doctor to inform me as much as possible about possible outcomes, side effects, and even future psychological effects. And if doctors have observed a fair bit of regret (I don't know the statistics), I can't really hold it against them for being skeptical and wanting to be sure that their patients have thought through all the implications. (Not to say I approve of state-mandated waiting periods or anything like that...)


-Medley
uncorked.org

2/08/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I knew someone years ago that became pregnant, but she and her partner had originally built a part of their relationship on the fact that neither wanted to marry or have children. To my surprse, they married and she had the baby.

Life for her fell apart after that because she felt intense pressure to be "a good mommy" although she just couldn't, and didn't want to be. It wasn't that she didn't love her child or her husband, but she felt that she was only becoming what was expected of her.

There are a ton of unanswered questions - why marriage and why not terminating the pregnancy for starters, but it all leads up to the pressure that society has put on couples to procreate. Whenever I read about this I think of them, and not only does it make me ponder it also makes me sad.

AldeaMB

2/09/2005

 
Blogger Stentor said...

On the "hurting your future wife" thing:

If a guy feels strongly enough about not having children that he'd go through with a surgical procedure, he's probably not the kind of guy who would have made a great father*. Is it that hard to make "shares my views on children" a criterion for selecting a mate?

*in general, obviously there will be exceptions.

2/09/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Steve, I've heard several reports of that happening on various childfree sites. It's not uncommon.
-Jennifer

2/09/2005

 
Blogger FoolishOwl said...

The more I think about it, the more I think I should get a vasectomy. I've never wanted children; and I've always been terrified of the idea of having intercourse with a women and her becoming pregnant. It's probably irrational of me to feel this way, but I've long felt as if that would be the most horrible thing I could do to another person. That might explain why I've been celibate for the last ten years. I'm a little tired of thinking of my own genitals as destructive, and being afraid of sex.

The few times I've looked at materials on vasectomies, they went on at great length about how young men without children should not get them, because they will probably regret it. I wonder if it's a mix of ideology with fear of lawsuits.

2/09/2005

 
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Ugh. Health insurance. I dream of having health insurance again.

I hadn't thought of it, but I suppose, given the enormous pressure on women to have children, and the ideology that women live to have children, that I should have realized it would be even harder for a woman to get a tubal ligation.

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Blogger Unknown said...

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