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Saturday, December 04, 2004

Sex and the college girl

I've been trying to ignore Tom Wolfe's newest paranoid screed. I really have. But it's just increasing the number of paranoid articles about the "hooking up" culture on college campuses. Through Roy Edroso, here is an NRO review of the book that explicitly draws this line to the reviewer's (John Derbyshire) own desire to control his daughter's sex life after she becomes a legal adult.

One thing I very particularly wanted to know, as father of a bright, pretty, almost-12-year-old girl, is: How true is Wolfe's portrait of elite-campus life? Are modern college campuses really such riots of drunkenness and affectless sexual "hooking up"?

The thing I find interesting about this obsession with the sex lives of young women is that lately the paranoid screeds about "hooking up" culture are always focused on the sex lives of college students. Even though Derbyshire gives perfunctory attention to the fact that the more dedicated a girl is to her studies, the more likely she will put off sex to a later age, there is no indication that he understands that young women who don't go to college also have sex outside of marriage. (I'm not even going into how he bemoans that his daughter is likely to have sex in college and then pities his college-age male friend who can't get laid because he's a right-winger.)

Why all the attention to the sex lives of college girls and not to girls who don't go to college? My guess is that the paranoia about "hooking up" is really just the modern manifestation of the ancient belief that education ruins women. People can't just come out and say that educated, intelligent women are unmarriageable, but they can say that they fear that college enviroments lead women to slutty behavior, the implication being that they are now unmarriageable.

268 Comments:

Blogger Sally said...

I don't think it's anything that complicated. This guy is worried about controling his daughter's sexuality, and he's convinced that his daughter and the daughters of everyone he knows will go to elite colleges. He's concerned about "people like us," and young women who don't go to college don't fall in that category.

12/04/2004

 
Blogger zuzu said...

Yeah, notice the worry about "elite" colleges. Way to distance yourself from the elite while assuming your daughter will join the ranks because you're there!

This little rhetorical device allows him to gasp in horror along with his audience at those liberal coastal Ivy-League elites and their wicked, wicked ways while not quite admitting that he wants his kid to join them.

Plus, you know, nobody in a state school ever had sex.

12/04/2004

 
Blogger Amanda said...

At this point, I think the word "elite" is just peppered throughout National Review with very little regard to what noun it's actually modifying.

12/04/2004

 
Blogger TRES CEE said...

what is the problem here, the person is worried about his daughter, not because she is or is not going to have extra marrital sex at an elite college, and yes he probably would like to even be there having sex with her cute friends, or even may express problems with someone, a young man having a difficult time getting his Lay, and yes, the standard is two faced or two issued, in that the girl is more precious to him then the guys, and yes the girl is more respected then other girls, if it is his girl.

yes it is a difficult thing for a man or a woman who loves their daughter to see them go off to life and face the difficult choices they must face and the chances they take endangering their future with the disease problem out there.

that is the most difficult thing to face, besides the traps that are out there for a teener or older to be entrapped in life problems where the problems become overwhelming so that they may not be successful in college or in marriage because of resulting problems from extra marital sex or relationships where they get trapped in Drugs, etc.

as a father, it was not easy to face and is not a light thing to consider, when there are men like a certain D who may rape or drug or plot to trap a yoiung person in drugs, or in company of someone who may do so, as drugs are profitable if you have customers so that if you trap them in drugs you have a customer for a long time and is the reason that one yoiung person's father in College wanted to get someone who had supplied his son with drugs.

yes there are also in some college towns those who are political powerful and who feed off of the inexperience of young girls and boys even for satisfaction of their desires.

they who also get into bad troube even to going to prison for years have I believe also used their power to take advantage of young people, and you can see the amount of suicides of young people on drugs who are related to Dentists, Network Broadcast OUtlets, Lawyers, accountants and who commit suicide after life of entrapped Perversion, and are from little towns in Western part of my state, very influential people, yes this exists and is real.

and yoiu know I know because I talked to a yoiung man, who did this, and who later committed suicide and caused desolation in the life of a group of yoiung ladies who knew him and saw his life ended over little more then several drug overdoses, non progress in College, Visits to Psychiatrists, finally commit suicide.

Yet my daughter finished, and was successful and loves her job, has met and married a successful yoiung man, whom she loves deeply.
but many do not and there is one whole section where yoiung ladies who have not made it in college, or other young ladies have settled with no backing from parents and have selected to do what ever they can to make a living and live as that thing on the end of a fishing line, catching a living here and there, and it is sad that is their end, but they are better then those who critisize them for doing what they do and who also abort their babies as they are at least obeying the Lord God of Israel, amen. They are Replenishing the earth and fulfilling their purpose if they at least have children, and if they stop not their purpose, they are more righteous then men who hold them back from their Job with Jail and who trap them in to drugs in some way through legal traps or laws mean to harass them.

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12/04/2004

 
Blogger TRES CEE said...

what is the problem here, the person is worried about his daughter, not because she is or is not going to have extra marrital sex at an elite college, and yes he probably would like to even be there having sex with her cute friends, or even may express problems with someone, a young man having a difficult time getting his Lay, and yes, the standard is two faced or two issued, in that the girl is more precious to him then the guys, and yes the girl is more respected then other girls, if it is his girl.

yes it is a difficult thing for a man or a woman who loves their daughter to see them go off to life and face the difficult choices they must face and the chances they take endangering their future with the disease problem out there.

that is the most difficult thing to face, besides the traps that are out there for a teener or older to be entrapped in life problems where the problems become overwhelming so that they may not be successful in college or in marriage because of resulting problems from extra marital sex or relationships where they get trapped in Drugs, etc.

as a father, it was not easy to face and is not a light thing to consider, when there are men like a certain D who may rape or drug or plot to trap a yoiung person in drugs, or in company of someone who may do so, as drugs are profitable if you have customers so that if you trap them in drugs you have a customer for a long time and is the reason that one yoiung person's father in College wanted to get someone who had supplied his son with drugs.

yes there are also in some college towns those who are political powerful and who feed off of the inexperience of young girls and boys even for satisfaction of their desires.

they who also get into bad troube even to going to prison for years have I believe also used their power to take advantage of young people, and you can see the amount of suicides of young people on drugs who are related to Dentists, Network Broadcast OUtlets, Lawyers, accountants and who commit suicide after life of entrapped Perversion, and are from little towns in Western part of my state, very influential people, yes this exists and is real.

and yoiu know I know because I talked to a yoiung man, who did this, and who later committed suicide and caused desolation in the life of a group of yoiung ladies who knew him and saw his life ended over little more then several drug overdoses, non progress in College, Visits to Psychiatrists, finally commit suicide.

Yet my daughter finished, and was successful and loves her job, has met and married a successful yoiung man, whom she loves deeply.
but many do not and there is one whole section where yoiung ladies who have not made it in college, or other young ladies have settled with no backing from parents and have selected to do what ever they can to make a living and live as that thing on the end of a fishing line, catching a living here and there, and it is sad that is their end, but they are better then those who critisize them for doing what they do and who also abort their babies as they are at least obeying the Lord God of Israel, amen. They are Replenishing the earth and fulfilling their purpose if they at least have children, and if they stop not their purpose, they are more righteous then men who hold them back from their Job with Jail and who trap them in to drugs in some way through legal traps or laws mean to harass them.

gee to cee, coppiateteme.

12/04/2004

 
Blogger Amanda said...

I suppose that a comment like that means I've reached some sort of tipping point where I'm pulling in readers who have no idea what this blog is about.

12/04/2004

 
Blogger mythago said...

Um, Tres, please note that the quoted author is not asking "Are the stories about date rape and roofies true?" He's not capable of thinking that his daughter might WANT to 'hook up,' that she might enjoy it every bit as much as a son. (How many fathers of sons fret over Tom Wolfe books? Yeah, thought so.)

He's of that mindset that sex is something done TO women--probably his own view of them as a young, college-age man, if he hasn't grown out of it--and so he can only see his daughter's sex life as a means by which men treat her as a commodity.

12/04/2004

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Enjoyed "Bonfire of the Vanities" and "A Man in Full" in a guilty-pleasure, comic-booky sort of way. But Wolfe's latest is just pathetic. Perhaps his next book should be set in a retirement community........

12/04/2004

 
Blogger zuzu said...

Never did get very far in "Bonfire of the Vanities." Just shortly past the "Ooh! He's talking about the Limelight!" portion.

In fact, a former friend of mine told me her father, a fixture in the Bronx criminal courts (a short Jewish man who often wore kilts) was miffed he didn't get mentioned in the novel.

At this point, I think the word "elite" is just peppered throughout National Review with very little regard to what noun it's actually modifying.Oh, they may not pay attention to the particular noun it's modifying, but they know damn well to what effect they're employing "elite" as an adjective.

12/04/2004

 
Blogger Eric V said...

The real reason that some are freaking out over the social/sexual lives of young women at "elite" colleges they that they're being sent there not to get a diploma but a diamond ring , in other words the famous M.R.S degree. Think about it , a college age woman is at the peak of her attractiveness (according to the stereotype that is ) and an elite college has the highest concentration of future hot-shot lawyers , investment bankers , stockbrokers , CEO's , congressmen etc.. that she will ever be exposed to . So if she wastes those years going from one casual liaison to another , well , she probably blew her best chance and it will be all downhill from there.
The above was a summary of conservative based thought. Reality based thought is this: at college age , most women and men are not ready for a lifetime relationship. This is not like the time decades ago when a college education was a ticket to a secure income for life.So if your last name is not Bush and you cannot even forsee a time when you income situation is stable enough to contemplate settling down and having a family why not have casual relationships (as long no deception is involved and all parties know the score). Seen this way , hookups are not some new depravity but an ackowledgment of the socio-economic reality of today.

12/05/2004

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

quote:
---
He's of that mindset that sex is something done TO women--probably his own view of them as a young, college-age man, if he hasn't grown out of it--and so he can only see his daughter's sex life as a means by which men treat her as a commodity.
---
this is a very widespread belief...
that when a guy and a girl have sex, the guy "wins" and the girl "loses".
and it is created by women as much as by men
women expect to be "compensated" for sex, they view it like a "favour" that they are doing to their guy.
and also parents are indeed more protective of daughters, they are considered more "fragile" and "precious".
so we have here a cultural meme which is basically prejudice against men.

feminists take any issue and twist it to make women the "victim".
this is because instead of analyzing things logically, they already come with a preconceived belief that women are "oppressed", and no matter what happens, it must hurt women somehow !
i wonder when this mindset is going to fade away...

12/05/2004

 
Blogger Amanda said...

Anon, women were viewed as disliking sex and only exchanging sex for money long, long, long, LONG before feminism ever existed. That's why they call it the world's oldest profession, my dear boy. If you want a woman to want sex with you for its own sake instead of looking to see what she can get out of you, then feminism is your very best friend. But first you have to grow up and realize that it's a social critique, not a bunch of bitching about men.

12/05/2004

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Also, notice how Anon's comment only makes sense if Derb's a feminist. Which is amusing.

I also like how Derb's review applauds Wolf for being so *honest* and *bold* when in fact Wolf is being cliched and boring -- naming his black basketball players funny names and giving his poor characters from the country bad grammar and clumsy table manners, not to mention mocking that Jew. This is honest? This is bold, insightful writing? Please. The freshmen in my Imaginative Writing class do exactly the same things -- well, except for the Jew, of course. They do draw the line somewhere.

Delagar

12/05/2004

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"women expect to be "compensated" for sex, they view it like a "favour" that they are doing to their guy."

Great way to start out - by claiming that all women are, essentially, prostitutes.

I'd like to see you substantiate that claim, by the way. Have you spoken to every woman out there? I'm holding my breath, I really am.

"so we have here a cultural meme which is basically prejudice against men."

Um, excuse me, how? We punish young women for having sex; we don't punish young men. Unless you're going to argue that sex itself is inherently damaging, I don't see how you can turn this into "waaaa, look at all the oppressed men."

12/05/2004

 
Blogger Amanda said...

I guess if all women are whores, then all men are johns. That's the anti-male sentiment lurking in there. Clearly, women need to be punished for turning all men into pathetic johns who have to pay for sex.

12/05/2004

 
Blogger Eric V said...

About the anti male subtext in the classic sexual double standard , yes of course it's there . What it basically does is that it provides "virtuous matrons" with the consolation that , while they must be subservient to their husbands , they are at least morally superior to the hairy , lust consumed brutes that they must submit to.You may remember a book called "The Rules" which came out in the 90s and explained how to snag Mr Right by the traditional methods of playing hard to get , doling out sexual favors in strategic increments etc.. Well a reviewer had it right when she said that the book's authors (2 women) showed for more contempt for men and any radical ball-busting lesbian feminist she knew.

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feminists take any issue and twist it to make women the "victim".Dammit, I *just* got my irony detector fixed!

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