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Wednesday, February 09, 2005

Nice guys, jerks, and growing up

Ah, typhonblue, the old woman-hating troll from Hugo's blog, has struck a nerve with a blog post that has just enough truth in it, that guys who think they are nice because they are willing to suck up to pretty women to get laid are annoying, that she has managed to sneak in once more some of her appalling and downright frightening views on relationships between men and women. Hugo and Kameron have commentary.

Typhon makes it clear that we poor, pathetic women have two choices--Nice Guys and Jerks. Nice Guys are those guys that annoy everyone by whining about how nice they are. Fact of the matter, they are the ones who define themselves as "nice" and the word comes up when they are trying to explain why a girl they find really attractive is dating someone else. You want to smack them for being whiny, and that's it. It's an ego thing--do they think they are the only people in the world who dwell on the flaws of their romantic rivals? And questioning a woman for her romantic choices, attempting to woo her by attacking her, is not really attractive. Not when Nice Guys do it under the guise of "helping" and not when Jerks do it by opening jumping all over you.

Typhon doesn't like the "helping" shit, and I don't blame her, so she's gone with the in-your-face asshole thing.

I live with a Jerk, by the way. If we go on a hike and I pack too much he tells me to suck it up and live with it, he doesn’t carry it for me. If I forget my jacket he tells me that I should have remembered it, he doesn’t give me his. If I’m whiny and clingy he tells me to stop bothering him and deal with it myself. If I hit him, he hits back. If I’m a bitch he doesn’t give an inch.

Ah, there are your choices, ladies. A guy who makes you feel stupid by condescending to you and a guy who makes you feel stupid by jumping all over your shit any chance you get. Should women have to tolerate being told they are stupid and inadequate all the time? But of course! Women are stupid and inadequate and need a big, strong man to make them better. (And typhon wants women to be treated as individuals? Apparently, treating women like morons across the board is an effective strategy.)

Doubt me? Here's some examples of how Real Men Give Tough Love to Stupid Women.

Most women not only love gossiping about their men, they also don’t have the mental ability to understand what’s really going on. So women complain endlessly about all the awful things their Jerks do, which just amounts to the Jerk not treating them like a delicate flower.

Thank god we have cool, rational men carefully cutting off affection to control our out-of-control gossipy ways!

Because my Jerk boyfriend doesn’t carry my pack, I’ve gotten that much stronger and more rational about what I pack. Because he doesn’t give me his jacket, I learn to remember it so I have it even when he can’t offer his. Because he doesn’t always drop everything and tend to my emotional ills, I’ve become more independent and capable of tending to them myself.

The fundamental difference between men and women, right there! Men are born cool, rational, thoughtful and mistake-free. Women don't know a damn thing and have to learn everything the hard way. A good man allows his woman to grow by making her learn everything the hard way, stoically knowing that it's the only way.

I wonder where my relationship falls on this scale. I am prone to doing things like forgetting my jacket, and my boyfriend will remind me before I leave. But alas, despite his manly perfection, he is prone to misplacing things, which I am good at finding. And neither of us really gets overly hung up on teaching each other a lesson.

Because he hits me if I hit him, I’m reminded that I’m accountable for my actions. Because he doesn’t reward my bad behavior, he’s helped me mature and grow up.

Getting closer every day to the day you realize that in most situations where someone crosses the line and raises a hand, real grown-ups just walk away.

I don't really know any men anymore that are Nice Guys or Jerks. I tend not to hang around men who have big control issues when it comes to women. Most men I know genuinely like women. I know, that probably means they are deluded Nice Guys by typhon's definition, since genuinely liking women is pretty much impossible, since women are plain awful.

Any sane person can see that women vary wildly in character. Some are catty, vicious and bitchy. Others are smothering, clingy and suffocating. And then there are those who are honest about it.

Damn, I don't like women either if those are your choices. But see, I actually do think that women vary wildly in character and so do men. So wildly that you really can't narrow it down to Smotherers and Cats or Nice Guys and Jerks. In fact, most people vary wildly in character over the course of the day, going through periods of rationality and emotionalism, sturdiness and neediness. And most people in my life I really enjoy treat their lovers and their friends as just that--lovers and friends, not clay for molding, not goddesses on a pedestal. And your lover isn't your student and coolly teaching someone a lesson is a power trip. And power trips are the complete opposite of actual rationality.

476 Comments:

Blogger zuzu said...

Ah, yes, women are catty little flowers just waiting to be guided by the hands of Jerks.

Well, I knew there was a boyfriend lurking in the background to explain her obsession with greedy divorcees.

2/09/2005

 
Blogger Kate said...

I probably wouldn't be overly sympathetic if she packed too much for a hike - does this mean I'm a (female) jerk or that she's stupid?

And there I was thinking nice mean, well, nice...

I have no idea what's she's talking about with this dichotomy - obviously it's my own fault for dating human beings rather than stereotypes straight out of pulp fiction novels....

2/09/2005

 
Blogger lawrence krubner said...

It's sad about typhonblue. I like contrarian voices that offer unpopular opinions. I think their vital to the survival of an idea. It's too bad she felt the need to make ad hominein attacks against Hugo Schwyzer. That simply detracts from the conversation.

2/09/2005

 
Blogger djw said...

Nice discussion. I've said before that there are two kinds of people so obnoxious I really can't stand being around them: women and men. I'm not a misanthrope, I like people. But people who base their personalities on some retrograde idea of what it means to be their gender tend to be obnoxious (and, frankly, boring) because the stereotypes out there are obnoxious and boring, be it the "nice guy" or the "jerk" or any number of idiotic notions of what women are supposed to be.

2/09/2005

 
Blogger Pseudo-Adrienne said...

Yep. Nothing turns me on more than gossiping about material items and what jerks all men are. I'm so irrational and immature due to my uterus. I guess that's why the English Dictionary decided to use the Greek word for uterus, "hyster", and make it the root word of hysterical. It reflects so wonderfully on women's natural character.

Thank god for big strong, rational men like Typhon to show me the way. If only we had penises and testicles ladies....ugh.

And p.s., if those are really the only choices of men I have, then I'll gladly die alone. But I know it's just stereotypical bullshit so I have hope.

2/09/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

PA, Typhon is a woman. I know, we had trouble believing it, too. Hey, even feminists fall for stereotypes--like the stereotype that all misogynists are men.

2/09/2005

 
Blogger Pseudo-Adrienne said...

Oh crap-nuts, thanks Amanda. You're right, it is a stereotype that all misogynists are male, and I apologize. After all, look at Ann Coulter and the IWF. How could I ever forget about those particular misogynists ;-)

2/09/2005

 
Blogger Trish said...

"I don't really know any men anymore that are Nice Guys or Jerks. I tend not to hang around men who have big control issues when it comes to women."

You hit the nail on the head there. Nice guys are just as controlling as jerks. They are only controlling in a different way. They are all about bringing attention to themselves with their whining and their claims of being "sensitive." I avoid them like the plague.

2/09/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

She certainly seems to take a creepy amount of pride in the reciprocal DV in her relationship.

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2/09/2005

 
Blogger Phila said...

Any sane person can see that women vary wildly in character. Some are catty, vicious and bitchy. Others are smothering, clingy and suffocating. And then there are those who are honest about it.Man, talk about diversity! Women can be dishonestly hateful AND honestly hateful? I never would've guessed there was so much variety among the Fair Sex!

I love it when patently immature, stupid, and deranged people explain how something or other has helped them to "grow." I don't know this "Typhon" person, but she seems to that think her unpleasant behavior - which her lout of a boyfriend is so selflessly beating out of her - has something to do with the fact that she's a woman. I think a more reasonable explanation would be that she's a tedious, self-centered goon.

I'm glad she found someone just like her. Better two people should be miserable than four.

2/09/2005

 
Blogger echidne said...

A fun post, Amanda. It's interesting how the false dualism creeps in everywhere with Typhon (why does she call herself after my ex?). Boyfriends are either nice guys or jerks, women are either clingers or cats and so on. Sounds very primary schoolish to me, like one of those tests where circles are either big or small.

For the record, I have had absolutely wonderful lovers all my life, wonderful people and wonderful men. None of them has done any of those falsely dualistic things, and they have all been real people. The same applies to women who have been or are my friends. Sure, there are pathological cases out there, of all genders, but they are not the norm and should not be viewed as such.

2/09/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hmm... looking over Typhon's LJ, I think her main motivation is that she wants guys to have more hot gay sex for her pleasure, so she blames the evil matriarchy for restricting male homosexuality and depriving her of her fair share of slash fantasies.

Err... at least, that's the impression that I'm getting.

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Anonymous mythago said...

There are plenty of women who love the idea of being the only girl in the room, to the point where they'll happy dis the perceived characteristics of females. "But I'm not like that, see? I'm special! Look at me!"

I hate blog-pimping, but I posted about this myself (scroll down to "Dating Advice from Bad Cop"). Somebody who thinks it's Wimp v. Jerk doesn't think much of men.

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11/15/2005

 
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11/15/2005

 
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11/15/2005

 
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11/15/2005

 
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11/15/2005

 
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11/16/2005

 
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11/16/2005

 
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11/17/2005

 
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11/18/2005

 

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