Mouse rant blog vent mouse.

Wednesday, February 09, 2005

Moral gray areas and abortion

Rebecca Traister at Salon has a really fantastic round-up today of the various debates in the pro-choice community on how best to acknowledge that people have moral questions about abortion so as to better get the message of free choice across to ordinary Americans. Most people aren't hardline against abortion--they don't think it's murder or anything, but they are still comfortable with the morality of it.

For instance, most people really don't think that an embryo is the same thing as a three-year-old. It's later term abortions that make people uncomfortable, and I have to admit that they make me uncomfortable, too. The closer to the due date a fetus gets, the more baby-like it is, and I'm not so foolish as to say that a late-term fetus isn't pretty much the same thing as a baby. That's common sense. It's also common sense not to get all riled up because a woman forces a termination at 2 months, as we don't get all freaked out with a woman miscarries at 2 months. It wasn't a baby. Again, common sense.

I think that the pro-choice side has the best answers to most people's worries about late-term abortions, which this article deals with well.

Hill also attacked the antiabortion movement's focus on late-term abortions, pointing out that when she began providing services, there were very few second-term abortions. That changed in 1977, when the Hyde Amendment restricted Medicaid-funded abortions to poor women, who were then forced to save money and schedule later terminations. "The same people create a need for later abortions, and then they attack it! I think our community has lost sight of who we are fighting for. We have got to redefine it and give it a face again."

Focus on how choice and freedom means more contraception to prevent pregnancy in the first place and how access is important in order to get abortions done in the time period that most people acknowledge that the fetus is not a baby. I don't really think that most Americans are confused about what they want to see, which is safe, accessible contraception and abortions in the first trimester.

For those women that "deserve" abortions, that is. The real gray area that has always been a huge gray area is where the idea of pregnancy as punishment for naughty girls comes into play. The anti-abortion side gets a lot of people over to their side by telling stories of abortion as "birth control", a phrase that while technically true is one that most people associate with convienence. Tie the ideas of convienence and youth and sex and girls together and what you get is a bona fide stereotype--sluts running around having sex all over the place as if it were their right and then avoiding the consequences by scheduling their abortions in between their manicures and hair-dressing appointments. Or, to put it less boldly, anti-abortion forces sell their side by selling the Madonna vs. whore image, full well confident that most people, brought up on a steady diet of discomfort with female sexuality, when given the choice between a beatific mother with her small child holding a sign that says, "Why do you want to kill me?" and a young single woman weaseling out of her obligation to be a mother and a wife....

Well, we're getting the results right now. This article discusses how Frances Kissling wants to repackage abortion and remind people it's a moral choice. And she's right--in reality, women who get abortions are doing so because they are doing the best that they can, making the choice that seems right to them.

But people like to focus on the act that created the need for the abortion--sexual intercourse, usually consensual. (Yes, rape victims avail themselves of legal abortion, too, but many people would give them an exemption if abortion were to be made illegal.) And so the question for people is not really, "Is abortion moral?" but "Should girls having 'immoral' sex be allowed to get away with it?" And I don't know what it's going to take to convince people that the stereotypical abortion patient--someone who is accidentally pregnant after engaging in premarital sex--was making a moral choice to begin with.

I think premarital sex is a moral choice. Yep, you don't hear those words very often, do you? But it's true. I think hanging pictures on the wall is a moral choice. I think reading books is a moral choice. I think going to parties, listening to music, hanging out with friends, watching favorite TV programs, gardening, eating tasty cheeses and all the other myriad of things that we do to squeeze pleasure and love out of life are moral choices. These are the things that make life worth living.

I don't buy that the moral choice is always the hard one. It's easy to spread pleasure and joy in life if you start believing that it's your right and even your duty. And I think it is. There's enough misery and suffering just as a fact of nature, and we don't have to invent reasons to bring more stress and strife into our lives. Happy people with pleasure in their lives spread joy around them--seems like morality to me.

We can reduce the number of abortions by increasing sex education and making contraception more available. But let's be realistic--just as there will be a certain number of car accidents every year no matter how many safety precautions we take, there will be a certain number of accidental pregnancies. And as car accidents do not inflict themselves on the immoral, neither to accidental pregnancies. And if moral women are taking stock of their circumstances and beliefs after becoming pregnant on accident and deciding that they want an abortion, who is anyone else to judge?

67 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

maybe YOU don't get freaked out about miscarriages that happen at two months- but for a woman who has been desparately trying to conceive, to lose that child (yes, I'm calling it a child) after two hopeful months IS devastating.

2/09/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amanda:

I think you hit the nail on the head that one of the major issues is that some folks think pregnancy is the proper consequence for sex. In fact, I think in their heart of hearts, many antis also think that sexually transmitted infections are appropriate consequences for sex.

Social and religious sanction alone cannot prevent people from enjoying sex with multiple partners. I think some folks just think that without pregnancy and disease to scare people (I mean women), they'll have too much fun. This kind of puritanism running in the background is hard to change because only the super-fringie will even acknowledge these beliefs.

Thomas

2/09/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think you've got the right read, but it's almost impossible to change the paradigm. Even though, with the commonness of pre- or extra-marital sex, most of the people who are anti-abortion probably had some themselves, they just don't seem to make the connection. It's like, "Well, *I* was careful, so I'm better"... which is why I don't understand abstinence-only sex ed, but that's another rant.

To the Anon poster who talked about miscarriage -- I don't think anyone is saying, though, that a miscarriage isn't traumatic. It's just that, especially early-term, most of the grief is on behalf of the parents, rather than the child. People would say things like, "I know how much you wanted a child; that's terrible for you, I'm so sorry" not "Oh, how awful -- think of all the wonderful things the child might have done." Different focus.

2/09/2005

 
Blogger FoolishOwl said...

I think we need to express sympathy with people who feel uncomfortable with the idea of abortion -- but not give an inch on the principle that abortion should be a right, with no questions asked, and with no apologies.

There's been entirely too much apologizing for the right to abortions, and that's a serious strategic mistake.

2/09/2005

 
Blogger Aunt B said...

I know it's not your main point, but I especially appreciate your insistance on viewing sexuality, whether expressed in marriage or out of it, as being an opportunity to spread joy and beauty.

2/09/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interestingly when you look at the figures (at least in Australia) it seems there is a rise in the number of older women having abortions. This cuts very much across the stereotype of unmarried teenage girl as the main seeker of abortions. Many of these older women are presumably married or in long term live-in relationships (which tend to get treated as the same thing here). This gives anti-abortionists pause because instead of seeing someone who should be 'punished' or who should 'face the consequences of her actions' as the main actor here, we have instead married women who may already be mothers choosing to terminate accidental and unwanted pregnancies. Of course, there's a whole other set of rhetoric which could be used against these women, but interestingly, the language here has shifted to "we need to do something to support families better because these women wouldn't be choosing to abort if they could afford that third, fourth or fifth child."

--Justine

2/09/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Unless I'm mistaken, Justine, that's actually been the dominant group of abortion patients in the US for a while. I remember seeing, four years ago, a chart that pegged white women in their 30s or 40s as making up the biggest single chunk of performed US abortions.
-NF

2/10/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's something strange with the world: I've found myself agreeing with you twice in the past few days. This is a great post which disentangles the issues around abortion very nicely and without hysteria (excuse the phrase). Plus, I really like your point that pleasure can be a moral choice. Hear hear!

(The other agreement, if you're curious, is that Simone de Beauvoir rocked very much.)

Individ-ewe-al (http://www.outgra.be/blog.html)

2/10/2005

 
Blogger Jeff Pollet said...

Thanks for the interesting post.

One other thing that I think is relevant is that the people who are talking about women using abortion as birth control are often the same ones who go around saying how absolutely horrible abortion is for the woman, physically and emotionally. (Disagreements about how difficult the procedure can be aside, the people I'm speaking of are the ones who are painting a more gruesome picture than reality does...)The two viewpoints (because they are both extremes on opposite ends of a spectrum) are incompatible--if it's so horrible, why would anybody conceive of it as just another errand?

2/10/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've come to a similar conclusion about anti-abortion forces: that it's not about protecting fetuses, it's about punishing women who have sex. I know some feminists who say that the pro-life movement is about controlling women's sexuality, but I think that the real goal is the pregnancy as punishment thing. Sure, "punishment" is a form of control, but still, it seems to me that the lashing out, the hurting, and the punishment are what much of the "pro-life" movement is about.

Jake.

2/10/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amanda,

I just found your blog (you can thank Shadow of the Hegemon) and I love it!

Wonderful post.

I agree, pleasure is a moral choice - thank you for saying so.

I'd also like to add:

I have three siblings. Only one of us was planned. Birth control failed three times. Since I learned this little tidbit around the time I first had sex ed in school, I've always had a hard time understanding the stereotype that most accidental pregnancies are a result of "bad" behaviour.

And of course, while my parents kept all three of us, circumstances could have easily been different. Would having less money or less of an inclination towards a large family somehow turn having monogomous sex with a married partner while on birth control into "bad" behaviour?

Hardly.

There is a part of me that understands (but strongly disagres with) the murder arguement - but the idea that women with accidental pregnancies are also somehow shirking their responsibilities (or worse, sneaking out of their just punishment) by having an abortion - that I don't get.

I'm glad someone is calling them on it.

Jenny

2/11/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Improve elasticity of your skin. Improve appearance of hair and nails.

11/12/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yo, This blog is pretty neat. You should check out mine sometime. It pretty much covers make money at home with your computer related stuff.

11/15/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, you have a great blog here! auctionI'm definitely going to bookmark you!
auction
It pretty much covers auctionrelated stuff
Come and check it out if you get time :-)

11/17/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hey did you know you can get a free ipod pretty easily?
just go to www.getipodsforfree.com, sign up and do an offer

11/17/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

girl im just looking lyric shes Hello

great blog

I was Looking and found this great site girl im just looking lyric shesinternet

11/22/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Indecision can be defeating, but doing "anything" is better than doing nothing. There are no wrong choices and very few choices that can't be undone or done again.sports nutrition dreampharm

11/28/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

thanks for the info

12/31/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I remember when a simple search for, let's say baby nursery bedding would bring up semi-related sites. I like your blog, but I wasn't exactly loking for this info. Good stuff anyway.

1/05/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Non ho realizzato che ci erano tanti luoghi del ohio auto accident attorney. Vostro � molto piacevole, la miniera pure non � fatta come la vostra.So long, Julee ohio auto accident attorney

1/06/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Vor was gibt es, Angst zu haben?Respectfully, Solange auto insurance accident values

1/07/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You know what else I like? Ovaltine!Best Wishes, Harriett charitable organization car donation

1/07/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

great job on the blog, I really like it and look forward to some more awesome postings. I have a website you might like


hoodia weight loss

1/08/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

good info

1/09/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

good post

1/09/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

good info

1/10/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Coming to the end of my ability to surf. My last post is on your site. Surfing for hours looking for sites about random topics like cribbage, snails, car loan boston, and whatever. Just bored.

1/11/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If Celebrex is stopped suddenly after several weeks of continuous use. Seizures may be a side effect of sudden discontinuation of the medication. Your doctor may recommend a gradual reduction in dose.

1/14/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi,
I came past your site while I was searching through Blogger, it is not really the information I was after about Health Medicine but I did stay to read your blog and found it interesting and well done, I do like what you have done with your site. Keep up the good work and hopefully I will visit again sometime and also find the information on Health Medicine that I was looking for in my travels.
Regards,

1/15/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ich bin nicht wirklich sicher, warum ich am electrolysis pictures. so interessiert binEarnestly, Porsha electrolysis pictures

1/22/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is a excellent blog. Keep it going. You may be interested in living better poor credit home loan http://thehomemortgageguide.com STOP renting now, Find out how! poor credit home loan

1/23/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe this is the perfect free business opportunity for you to stay home and make money...

1/27/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One of the better results I saw from my fasting experience was that I have more self control over my eating habits. I have always been a binge type of eater. After my fast, I felt like I could restrain myself easier. It is proberbly a mental attribute. I mean I can go without eating for 7 days then I sure can keep myself from eating something I shouldn't.
Link to this site. weight loss using hypnosis

1/27/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If You are Tired of NOT getting anywhere in Life. not being able to accomplish what it is out of life you want to. Ive been there and I still have my ups and downs in life but they don't seem to be the same downs, there are more ups in my life. I wrote a book on self improvement courses . It is to the point on what you need to do to change your life. I wont make this real long.. If you need to make more money .. have a better relationship with someone or your just tired of the same old you.. then visit us at http://goals444.com and find out more about self improvement courses

1/29/2006

 
Blogger Dale's Gmail said...

While searching for as seen on tv canada I just have not had the best search results. Maybe I need to create my own blog and let others post so I can get better info on as seen on tv canada.

1/29/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

good info

1/29/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From a single home PC to a multi million dollar enterprise. you can't afford to lose youe valuable data.
Link to my site:easy recovery data software

1/31/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

good post

1/31/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

good info

1/31/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

good info

2/01/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Withdrawal effects may occur if Evista is stopped suddenly after several weeks of continuous use. Seizures may be a side effect of sudden discontinuation of the medication. Your doctor may recommend a gradual reduction in dose

2/01/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi there,

I just ran across your site and enjoyed reading through everything.

I'm trying to get a blog going on my site too. But I dont think i have the patience to do it!

--Amy
My Antique Car Insurance Site

2/03/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mental health issues can be a devastating disease that affects millions of individuals and families. Find the right mental health issue program for yourself or a loved. It will be the first day of the rest of their or your life.

You can get more assistance at http://www.healthlistings.com .

2/06/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello,

News i found this morning :

Security breach involving undisclosed company prompts Bank of America to cancel debit cards of numerous customers.

Chris

2/11/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi, I found a great site that sells very high quality generic meds at good prices and I got my order in 5 days. check out www.1medstore.net

Janet

2/12/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

audio car electronics : i find hard to find interesting sites on this topic
I came here to ask you guys if you know some sites where i can have info on audio car electronics
Let me know
Thanks
Ulrich

2/12/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi, this site is really great. I got my meds from an offshore pharmacy in 4 days. Brand name meds. I used the promo code 'First' during my purchase since it was my first purchase and I got $15.00 discount.....check out www.1medstore.net

Jane

2/12/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi! I love your blog! Please take a look at my online radiology tech learning blog at online radiology tech learning. I think you will enjoy it! It talks all about online radiology tech learning.

2/15/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello ##NAME##, with all the information on legitimate work from home jobs I became very overwhelmed. Anyway, I was online doing a specific search for the most current information on legitimate work from home jobs and somehow I ended up on your site. ##NAME## to be frank, ##TITLE## wasn't not the exact match to what I was looking for, but boy am I glad I'm here. You've certainly managed to grab me attention and peak my interest. I must say this is a great blog and I'm most certainly happy that I stopped by eventhough it wasn't the legitimate work from home jobs related information I was looking for. Thanks. Keep up the good work.

2/19/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...


dating services Meet Thousands Of Singles In Your Area

Hundreds Of Happy People Across The Globe Have Been Successful In Finding Suitable Partners With Online dating.

Thousand Of People Are Looking For A Date Today. They Are Looking For Someone. Are You One Of Them?

Lonely? Single? Married?
Are you looking for someone to FLIRT?
Looking for someone to DATE?
Find your special someone.
Date man or women you desire!

Multilingual : English - Chinese Simplified - Chinese Traditional - Dutch - French - German - Greek - Italian - Japanese - Korean - Portuguese - Russian - Spanish

Free Trial! Chat Real Time with Audio & Video Capabilities. dating services

2/22/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Learning about clear pores has been a passion of mine. It's always good to see other sites interested in the same thing. One site I found helpful is clear pores They don't cover all of the subject, but cover quit a bit. Thanks for providing such good information for all to enjoy. From all of us here in New York, have a great year.

2/25/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Blogger:)

Awesome author!! Very informative well organized threads...... We like most of all the fact that here is always something new and very great to read.. Thank U!!

Regards,
start online business

2/26/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I enjoyed reading through your blog and experiencing your point of view.

Regards,

dog trainer illinois

2/28/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Many thanks for creating your blog. It's interesting how people are different in their interests.

Thank You again,

churchill dog insurance nodding

3/03/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi, i got a really good Ambien from this reliable foreign pharmacy called www.1medstore.net I used the promo code FIRST and I got $15.00 off my order. I know it is still valid since my friend just ordered...check it out...www.1medstore.net

3/11/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alcohol may increase drowsiness and dizziness caused by . Do not crush, chew, or break the extended-release form XR. Swallow them whole. These tablets are specially formulated to release Ativan the medication slowly in the body.

3/13/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi blogger:)

This web blos apart from being very well organized it is also very useful - at least to me:)

Regards,
make money at home online

3/17/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good comments. But, I do not agree with most of them. People sure have a lot of time on their hands.

3/19/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hi fellow blogger, I enjoyed reading about what you are interested in.

Thank You,

bird health pet

3/28/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Post a blog comment and blogging will survive!! - work from home opportunity

4/04/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...


hawaii real estate Real Estate Investment - How To Buy Real Estate Without Down Payment
Turn Your Dream Into Reality. Own Your Own Home In Just 60 Days! Isn't that the dream of most people?

Unfortunately, home ownership is an illusive dream for millions of people. The reason? Coming up with a large chunk of cash for the down payment. How would you like to get information on 5 non-profit sources that will GIVE you the money for your down payment? Do I have your attention? I thought so.

This innovative program is so new that most realtors and loan officers don't even know about it. You can grab this information today and start moving into your new home just 60 days from now! Real Estate Investment hawaii real estate

4/11/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...


home business - Essential Keys To Success In Your Home Business

Discover Today the most Powerful, yet simple Concepts to propel yourself towards Unlimited Success with Home Business Success Keys!

Have you found it yet? That magic bullet? It should be there. You've done everything right, according to all the "gurus." Where is the success and why is it so illusive? Actually, it's much closer than you think. The answer to these questions and many more can be found in the Home Business Success Keys.

6 jam-packed, two part audio volumes from the master of audio training, Paul Barrs. Yes, the same trainer who taught you how to increase your odds for success by 20% in Internet Marketing Mastery is back again.

And, impossible as it seems, this series packs an even bigger punch. home business

4/13/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have been following a site now for almost 2 years and I have found it to be both reliable and profitable. They post daily and their stock trades have been beating
the indexes easily.

Take a look at Wallstreetwinnersonline.com

RickJ

4/17/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shop, compare and save on your next home mortgage, refinance, auto loan, payday loan advance and even personal credit lines. Regardless of your prior credit, you can qualify for a better loan at a better rate by shopping and comparing our extensive site of lenders. Fill out a no obligation, simple one page application and get a FREE rate quote. We specialize in great low rates for those with poor or bad credit, even no credit at all. Good credit customers can expect the lowest rates available.

Don't delay, come to www.nwcleasing.com and apply today and get an instant decision and lock in your lowest possible rate.

4/30/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

a great opportunity, no selling, no phoning, no recruiting PERIOD!

4/30/2006

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Me and ozzy fucked more challenging, trying to show to my own god!
FUCK YES!' prior to cumming inside my warm pussy. were still fucking

Feel free to surf to my web blog :: hcg injections

3/15/2013

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey! I simply would like to give a huge thumbs up for the great data you have got here on this post.
I might be coming again to your blog for extra soon.

My web page seoul garden student price malaysia

6/06/2013

 

Post a Comment

Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]

<< Home